Hilleberg vs Hyperlite vs Seek Outside

[wind gypsy]

That DCF cimarron option sounds like a winner. I wouldn't get too wrapped up on getting a cuben floored inner. Cuben is less abrasion resistant than silnylon or silpoly so the tear strength / weight benefits aren't as valuable as they are in a fly. The HMG inners are not light and they're not cheap. A Sil supermid inner weighs 24 ounces compared to 28 for the HMG inner (supermid inner is 90"x90" compared to 101x101 for Ultamid 4 though).

In a custom inner I'd look at silpoly for a floor if possible. Cheaper, more abrasion resistant than cuben, and not as slippery as silnylon.

 

[Beendare]

In the shelter tradeoff in maxing out size/utility and still being light weight, the tipis are hard to beat.

You are getting some great comments...now its a matter of weighing Cost vs utility. I've been pretty happy with my Silnylon and SilPoly shelters. DCF is a little bit lighter- but it also allows you to get it more taught as it has zero stretch...and its a little bit better when it comes to condensation due to its reflectivity....though the key to any single wall system is strategic placement of ventilation.

My 12' 6" dia tipi is perfect for 3 men

..

 

[cubdriver84d]

I think it’s hard to beat the ultamid 4 if you want something that is light and comfortable for two 6’+ dudes and gear, and they are proven four season shelters properly pitched. I have been eyeing the dcf cimarron though, and it looks sweet. I especially like the sod skirt. The ultamid has a pretty stiff cone at the peak to let you pitch it with things like paddles plus two peak vents. No cone, a single peak vent, and lack of corner guy outs is where the cimarron can achieve the couple ounce weight savings over the ultamid 4, I think.

 

[JigStick]

Heres whats driving this debacle. I have a SO Redcliff and 16man Tipi. I use these in late fall through winter with liners and a SO titanium box stove or a Four Dog stove when base camping with the 16man. They work fantastic. They handle PA snow loads, PA wind, and PA rain. And im sure they could handle some sever weather if I took them out west.

I also have a Cabelas Bighorn 3 outfitters tent which is a beast. But it weighs 80lbs and is only good for car camping. And it takes up mad room in my vehicle. Its just too much tent to use on a weekend outing with my kids at state parks or rafting trips etc.

So i started to look at the Hilles as basically a car camping or short distance hike in type shelter that provided enough room for me and the boys plus our gear, and that could handle any weather. But it seems way way overkill for what I would use it for. And being 10lbs + it isn't something that I would considering taking out west with me. So it really would only serve me one function.

I think the better option...if im going to cough out $1200-1400 is to either get a custom nest for my Redcliff or pick up the cuben Cimarron / Nest package. At least if I go this route the shelter fills more roles for me.

Im pitching my Redcliff in the yard right now, and laying out the floor dimensions of the nest that BPWD recommended for me. Then ill start laying out some sleeping pads and Helinox cots and see if it will work. If it seems too big.....then Ill consider going with a new Cimarron purchase.

 

[Kevin_t]

Cimarron full nest can work with minor adjustment in a Redcliff.

There have been discussions on a Cimarron Light nest. Basically it comes down to Dual Doors , Floor and Zipper quality / durability.

 

[JigStick]

so the dimensions that BPWD recommended for a redcliff full nest are 12ft x 90in. I taped that off on my deck to see how big that area is with some sleeping bags. Then pegged it out inside my Redcliff in the yard. Also threw a sleep bag in there to get an idea of how much room id have inside the nest. I think at those dimensions there would be plenty of room for two adults and four kids inside the nest.

 

[sneaky]

so the dimensions that BPWD recommended for a redcliff full nest are 12ft x 90in. I taped that off on my deck to see how big that area is with some sleeping bags. Then pegged it out inside my Redcliff in the yard. Also threw a sleep bag in there to get an idea of how much room id have inside the nest. I think at those dimensions there would be plenty of room for two adults and four kids inside the nest.

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Are you taking in to account the slope of the nest walls?

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[JigStick]

I left that up to John at Bear Paw. He recommended keeping the nest peak 6in below the peak of the Redcliff. To allow for the slope of the nest walls and keep them off the Redcliff

 

[sneaky]

I left that up to John at Bear Paw. He recommended keeping the nest peak 6in below the peak of the Redcliff. To allow for the slope of the nest walls and keep them off the Redcliff

That'll eat into your floor space near the walls

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[JigStick]

What would you recommend? This is all new to me

 

[Jimbob]

I would cut a stick the height of the nest then tie a string to the top and bring that down to your layout on the ground. This will let you see what the angle of the screen wall will be. Also, a sleeping bag pushing against a screen wall is not a huge deal to me.

 

[Reburn]

I would cut a stick the height of the nest then tie a string to the top and bring that down to your layout on the ground. This will let you see what the angle of the screen wall will be. Also, a sleeping bag pushing against a screen wall is not a huge deal to me.

Or you could just set up the redcliff and hang a blue tarp inside of it and stake it to the ground where the nest would end. I think either method would work well.

 

[JigStick]

That’s a great idea. If I go this route with a 70D floor I think I’ll be around 8lbs.

But dam the Hyperlite Ultamid or Cuben Cimarron are dam nice and begging me to buy one of them

 

[Kevin_t]

Might I present a couple alternative options:

For the Cimarron the liners will be out shortly , we have just been getting the instructions and product built. Solo and lighter nests will be in the works but no ETA. We had a cutter leave and had to move some of our design staff to fill in and train. Such is the case at times. I would not hesitate to sleep 2 adults and 2 children in the Cimarron full nest sans stove. There are a couple other options in the works but it will take some time.

For the Redcliff .. is your reason for a nest ticks or flying insects ? A ground sheet floor in not a hard thing to do and honestly a lot of times havin
g it removable actually is a benefit with family camping (kids can bring in a lot of dirt). If your reason is more for flying insects have you considered the backpacker thermacell ? It is simple and the times I have used it in a shelter it works pretty well. For ticks .. ya get a nest.

 

[JigStick]

Kevin

Thanks! sounds like SO has some nice stuff coming to market soon. I hope a full nest fo the Red is in the mix....eventually. Especially with the cuben Red now available.

Yes the PRIMARY reason for needing a nest is ticks. they are just awful. More than a handful of my friends have gotten lyme over the past few years. And I've picked numerous ticks off my dog as well.

I do have a thermacell which i use in my turkey blinds. it keeps the flying insects at bay.

Yeah the cuben Cimarron with stove jack and a full nest for it are really really temping. I have an elk hunt coming up next year in CO and it could serve me well there.

 

[Kevin_t]

Nest just take time to get right and to maximize space. While we sell several hundred nests a year it is still a a tiny percentage compared to shelters. For instance full nests for the Cimarron are still less than 10 percent. Redcliff / Cimarron 2 person nests maybe are 15 percent or so. We also only have so much labor, space and people. Honestly, we need to start looking for another building in the not so distance future.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Nest just take time to get right and to maximize space. While we sell several hundred nests a year it is still a a tiny percentage compared to shelters. For instance full nests for the Cimarron are still less than 10 percent. Redcliff / Cimarron 2 person nests maybe are 15 percent or so. We also only have so much labor, space and people. Honestly, we need to start looking for another building in the not so distance future.

Sounds like a good problem to have, eh Kevin?


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[Kevin_t]

Sounds like a good problem to have, eh Kevin?


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Yes it is

 

[JigStick]

Played around with my redcliff again today. Got it staked perfectly. Staked out a full nest footprint inside it. John over at BPWD was pretty spot on with his estimates on dimensions. I ended up with dimensions of:

90in wide
144in long
center height 81.5in

One question though. Seek Outside lists the height of the Redcliff at 82in tall. When I have mine pitched perfectly, with no bell shape to it at all, the overall length of my center pole is 87 1/2inches.

John at BPWD recommended keeping the nest 6in below that, which put me at 81.5in nest height. I pulled string from that height down to the footprint of the nest and Im getting 4-5in clearances between the canopy and where the nest netting would be. which is perfect.

Why is my Redcliff taller than SO spec?

 

[wind gypsy]

One question though. Seek Outside lists the height of the Redcliff at 82in tall. When I have mine pitched perfectly, with no bell shape to it at all, the overall length of my center pole is 87 1/2inches.

John at BPWD recommended keeping the nest 6in below that, which put me at 81.5in nest height. I pulled string from that height down to the footprint of the nest and Im getting 4-5in clearances between the canopy and where the nest netting would be. which is perfect.

Why is my Redcliff taller than SO spec?

Lots of factors at play but I've found that height specs don't always tell the whole story with these types of shelters. Unless you're on perfectly flat ground with the same lateral and vertical tension and stake locations, you aren't going to measure the same heights.