HIIT for hunting?

[Poser]

Interval training can absolutely be productive as part of a conditioning program, however, your V02 max is sport specific so intervals on a bike increase your Vo2 max for Biking not rowing. Intervals on a rower increase your vo2 max for rowing but not running. With that in mind, one would have to wonder what the productivity for hunting actually is unless you are going to put on a pack and do intervals on a set of stairs (which, I’ve done before.

I’m always a bit miffed by the suggestion of running for mountain training since running doesn’t simulate much of anything that you do in the mountains and conditioning is sport specific. I know some folks say that they run from one ridgeline to the next getting after an animal, but in all of my years hunting, I don’t think that I’ve ever ran a single time. I’ve hiked hard and fast, but never actually ran. Back years ago when I used to run a lot (with a stupid amount of volume: 100+ miles a week), I got my ass absolutely handed to me on a climbing trip (carrying heavy packs of climbing gear) deep into the Wind River Range by a guy who had been climbing 14ers all summer and who had never ran in his life. It was an eye opening lesson.

All that being said, I hunt in some rugged ass country that’s about as steep and sustained as mountain hunting gets (San Juan Mountains). I Strength train year around. I snowboard in the winter, mountain bike in the summer (both sports in the same region and terrainI that I hunt in) and do a couple of weekends scouting to get “in shape” for hunting season. If you show up already sufficiently strong enough to carry a heavy pack, more than half the battle is already won. Getting “in shape” to hike all day isn’t really that difficult nor should it require complex training.

 

[jorgensen.travis]

Okay
What do you guys think is an appropriate rest time, say for 30 second hard goes of a mix of bodyweight work (burpees and stuff) and weighted work (kettlebell swings and stuff)?

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[PMcGee]

Interval training can absolutely be productive as part of a conditioning program, however, your V02 max is sport specific so intervals on a bike increase your Vo2 max for Biking not rowing. Intervals on a rower increase your vo2 max for rowing but not running. With that in mind, one would have to wonder what the productivity for hunting actually is unless you are going to put on a pack and do intervals on a set of stairs (which, I’ve done before.

I’m always a bit miffed by the suggestion of running for mountain training since running doesn’t simulate much of anything that you do in the mountains and conditioning is sport specific. I know some folks say that they run from one ridgeline to the next getting after an animal, but in all of my years hunting, I don’t think that I’ve ever ran a single time. I’ve hiked hard and fast, but never actually ran. Back years ago when I used to run a lot (with a stupid amount of volume: 100+ miles a week), I got my ass absolutely handed to me on a climbing trip (carrying heavy packs of climbing gear) deep into the Wind River Range by a guy who had been climbing 14ers all summer and who had never ran in his life. It was an eye opening lesson.

All that being said, I hunt in some rugged ass country that’s about as steep and sustained as mountain hunting gets (San Juan Mountains). I Strength train year around. I snowboard in the winter, mountain bike in the summer (both sports in the same region and terrainI that I hunt in) and do a couple of weekends scouting to get “in shape” for hunting season. If you show up already sufficiently strong enough to carry a heavy pack, more than half the battle is already won. Getting “in shape” to hike all day isn’t really that difficult nor should it require complex training.

To say running does absolutely nothing for you is false in my opinion. On years where I run 3 times a week and hike with a pack 2-3 days a week I feel much better on the mountain then if I just train with my pack. Do you have to run no but it definitely doesn’t hurt.


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[rino]

4hr/day commute???

Damn....

 

[Stingray]

I’ve always just done Crossfit 5-6x per week’s with a 1 mile run as my warmup. That has always worked for me. Never have felt out of breath nor out of shape during elk hunts at 7,000-9,000 feet. But CF is not always HIIT. But every workout is intense and about 20-40 minutes. The mix is sufficient that I’ve been in shape for my reserve service, have run half marathons and two tough mudders (12 miles each) without any additional training. But as I got close to hunting season, I’d occasionally wear my backpack with a 45lb plate in it and do my run and CF workout with the backpack in my hiking boots. Running a mile with that sucks. Regardless of what I did daily, I was always done in 45 minutes. And I’d be smoked by the time I was finished.

This year will be different. I just had my knee reconstructed and won’t be back to normal until July. I’m hoping that my typical CF workouts will be sufficient to get me back into shape (as opposed to round which is the shape I’m currently approaching)! Time will tell.

 

[Coach Chris]

Okay
What do you guys think is an appropriate rest time, say for 30 second hard goes of a mix of bodyweight work (burpees and stuff) and weighted work (kettlebell swings and stuff)?

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This is a good article on work to rest ratio
https://breakingmuscle.com/fitness/...-work-and-rest-periods-when-interval-training

 

[jorgensen.travis]

This is a good article on work to rest ratio
https://breakingmuscle.com/fitness/...-work-and-rest-periods-when-interval-training

Thanks for the info. I was pretty far off on what I thought was HIIT. I'm doing something different (probably what you guys are making fun of). Most of my knowledge is based off training kids, not high level athletes. It's usually designed to get the most amount of work out of them in the time I have with them. Since most of them don't really know how to push themselves, I designed a program to kind of trick them into it. They can go hard for short time and often. I find the same tactics work on myself. Since it's hard to continuously push myself close to my breaking point in my basement by myself, without a coach motivating me, timed intervals, short rests, and goals to meet are what works for me. I rarely have more than 30 minutes for a workout, so longer rest time than work time doesn't make sense, unless I'm doing conventional weight lifting.


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[BiG_Sea]

My main concern with HIIT is the injury potential. It's also commonly done in a way that just makes it grinding anaerobic work instead of a mix of high intensity anaerobic work with recovery in the aerobic zones. It's not supposed to be this high intensity workload where you just hang on for dear life until you simply die off...

Agree - took me a long time to learn this. Used to race bicycles (early Armstrong era, so I’m old) but much of the training was “go deep and stay there”, which would wipe me out, but 3-4 weekly real races (a nasty mix of 120% and 60% effort levels) always snapped me into shape


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[BiG_Sea]

4hr/day commute???

Damn....

Both my wife and I found really cool jobs, but like 70 miles apart. Hers is close to her parents place, so by living close to her work, my kid gets to know the grandparents and we get the occasional date night w/o paying for a babysitter. The lack of fitness is really the only down side.


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[BiG_Sea]

Thanks for all the discussion here, thinking I’ll stick with the HIIT approach and maybe try to take a strategic half day a one or two times a month for a hike with a weighted pack.


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[jorgensen.travis]

BiG_Sea
You should really look at your day and try to find down time. I'm a really busy guy, so I've done all sorts of odd things to fit my workouts in. I went through a phase of 300 pushups a day. It was 10 sets of 30 at times of the day, mostly at work. I've ran the stairs at lunch when working in high rises, I've joined gyms next to my job to either hit on lunch or before work. If I drop my kids of at practice or something, I'll do a workout instead of waiting. If I only have 15 minutes when I get home until I have to leave, I can jump on my treadmill in my underwear and go hard for that time, then put my dry clothes back on and go, I grab heavy kettlebells and go through the steps of getting them from the ground to over my head mixed with sprints on the Airdyne bike and destroy myself in 10 minutes. There's always options. I guess it's worth noting that I'm a construction worker so it's acceptable to be sweaty.

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[BiG_Sea]

You're welcome


How many days per week can you train?
How many of those will have 30min? 60min?

What kind of equipment and facilities do you have access to?

Hey Chris,
Equipment is unlimited; there’s a 24 fitness down the street and I get a discount thru work. Haven’t joined yet. Still have five more pre-paid sessions at Orangetheory left over from my far-too-late-elk-trip-prep last summer. That’s probably too expensive to continue, but it sure is easy to get the intensity in that environment.
Plan right now is get my running legs back under me with 2x per week runs, then add OTF once a week for five weeks, then find something interval rich but low injury risk to replace OTF.
I also have access to a road and mountain bike; I’ve given up on road riding alone, the risk from idiots texting and driving has skyrocketed. MTB work is complicated—all the local trails are packed with hikers at the times I’d like to be doing intervals. Ideally I’d find a fast road group terrorizing the local boulevards—that kind of effort has always boosted my fitness quickly...working on that.


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[Coach Chris]

Hey Chris,
Equipment is unlimited; there’s a 24 fitness down the street and I get a discount thru work. Haven’t joined yet. Still have five more pre-paid sessions at Orangetheory left over from my far-too-late-elk-trip-prep last summer. That’s probably too expensive to continue, but it sure is easy to get the intensity in that environment.
Plan right now is get my running legs back under me with 2x per week runs, then add OTF once a week for five weeks, then find something interval rich but low injury risk to replace OTF.
I also have access to a road and mountain bike; I’ve given up on road riding alone, the risk from idiots texting and driving has skyrocketed. MTB work is complicated—all the local trails are packed with hikers at the times I’d like to be doing intervals. Ideally I’d find a fast road group terrorizing the local boulevards—that kind of effort has always boosted my fitness quickly...working on that.


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It seems far too often folks get obsessed with aerobic and anaerobic conditioning. People are either unaware or forget that absolute strength is the foundation of all movement. Everything we do requires a percentage of our absolute strength. The stronger you are the easier everything else is.
You might want to devote 2 sessions a week to building and maintaining your strength base?

 

[Jqualls]

It seems far too often folks get obsessed with aerobic and anaerobic conditioning. People are either unaware or forget that absolute strength is the foundation of all movement. Everything we do requires a percentage of our absolute strength. The stronger you are the easier everything else is.
You might want to devote 2 sessions a week to building and maintaining your strength base?

^^^this then the rest of the week find something that you enjoy doing and do it. You will be much more likely to stay committed and make time to do something you enjoy. I hate running so I don't do it but I love mountain biking. I will push pretty hard on a bike because it is something I have fun doing.

 

[c_e_UofU]

My main concern with HIIT is the injury potential. It's also commonly done in a way that just makes it grinding anaerobic work instead of a mix of high intensity anaerobic work with recovery in the aerobic zones. It's not supposed to be this high intensity workload where you just hang on for dear life until you simply die off...

For sure. You can jack up your body by doing intensity for intensity's sake. Making sure that it's done in a thought out way is key.

 

[jorgensen.travis]

I think I missed an explanatory sentence or two in addition to that extra “i” in HIIT. I’m looking at a high altitude deer hunt in August, but have been struggling with workout time due to my commute and giving my wife a break from being a nearly-single parent. Happy that I’ve reduced the commute, but reality is that I’ll be lucky to get more than 3 hours a week of fitness in. So, HIIT is attractive, curious how others have done with similar time limits.


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I rarely have more than 30 minutes to workout. I feel like the most efficient use of time for all around fitness is to go hard for a short time and take a short break before the next time you go hard. I typically do 45 seconds all out goes with 15 second rest for 30 minutes. The times should be adjusted to whatever amount of seconds you can handle without slacking. The rest should be short enough to keep you out of your comfort zone. I think the proper term for this is Tabata not HIIT, but I try not to get too concerned with definitions of words, or acronyms.


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[Coach Chris]

The Tabata Protocol is a very specific form of training designed to be done a stationary bike.
The Tabata Protocol Workout requires the following:

• 5 minutes of warm-up
• 8 intervals of 20 seconds all-out intensity exercise followed by 10 seconds of rest
• 2 minutes cool-down

The original study conducted by Dr. Izumi Tabata at the National Institute of Fitness and Sports in Tokyo, Japan used highly-trained endurance athletes in peak physical condition. They would do 8 (or more) intervals, keeping the RPMs on the bike over 85 RPMs until they couldn't maintain that level of intensity.

Nothing else is a Tabata Protocol even if the same intervals are followed.

This is very well written article on anaerobic alactic energy system development

The Ultimate Guide to the Anaerobic Alactic Energy System

The anaerobic alactic energy system is synonymous with sprint training, weight training, and resistance training. It can be described as tackling absolute strength adaptations or one-rep max lifts and explosive power.

strengthmatters.com

 

[jorgensen.travis]

The Tabata Protocol is a very specific form of training designed to be done a stationary bike.
The Tabata Protocol Workout requires the following:

• 5 minutes of warm-up
• 8 intervals of 20 seconds all-out intensity exercise followed by 10 seconds of rest
• 2 minutes cool-down

The original study conducted by Dr. Izumi Tabata at the National Institute of Fitness and Sports in Tokyo, Japan used highly-trained endurance athletes in peak physical condition. They would do 8 (or more) intervals, keeping the RPMs on the bike over 85 RPMs until they couldn't maintain that level of intensity.

Nothing else is a Tabata Protocol even if the same intervals are followed.

This is very well written article on anaerobic alactic energy system development

The Ultimate Guide to the Anaerobic Alactic Energy System

The anaerobic alactic energy system is synonymous with sprint training, weight training, and resistance training. It can be described as tackling absolute strength adaptations or one-rep max lifts and explosive power.

strengthmatters.com

For the Airdyne bike, I like 2 minutes of steady speed with 30 second sprints every 2 minutes for 30 minutes. Again, I adjust for the work capacity of whomever is doing it. The idea that we should stick to certain protocols to fit into definitions of words seems silly to me.

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[Coach Chris]

For the Airdyne bike, I like 2 minutes of steady speed with 30 second sprints every 2 minutes for 30 minutes. Again, I adjust for the work capacity of whomever is doing it. The idea that we should stick to certain protocols to fit into definitions of words seems silly to me.

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Who said you should do anything?
You're not doing the Tabata Protocol.

 

[jorgensen.travis]

Who said you should do anything?
You're not doing the Tabata Protocol.

I was referring to the idea that we may want to customize our workouts to work with our lives and specific goals. Rather than thinking we have to perform HIIT, Tabata, or whatever exactly the way that it was originally intended. For instance, if you're performing HIIT with 4 minutes of rest between work, and you only have 30 minutes, it may not be the best method to build cardio. If that's part of the goal.

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