High end, high cost optics... Why should I buy?

[Beendare]

Its not $300 vs $3,000...... a total exaggeration.

Its $500-$600 for some darn good glass( nikon, Leopold) vs Meopta $1,100, Swaro at $1,750...and Leica, Zeiss $2,000+

Binos are a serious piece of gear for many of us that spend hours behind them....

$300 binos give me a headache....


——

 

[mgebs311]

Sounds like you don’t need convincing. We all have things we are willing to spend money on and some things we like to be more frugal with. For some it optics.

 

[CorbLand]

If your eyes can't tell the difference between color shades (like grass yellow and elk yellow), then how do your binos help that? Won't your eyes still have the same issue, even through the optics? If mid-grade glass changes the colors such that they appear even closer to each other then I guess I could understand that.

I'm mainly just wondering if others have had the same experience as me, not being able to justify the difference. I'm talking like spending $300 vs $3000. The $3k glass is better, no doubt; but not that much. All the sales folks sure do want to convince me it is, and that I need it! If it really made a MAJOR difference in my success, comfort, and enjoyment then I would pony up and pay it. But I'm still not convinced it would. The differences are noticeable, but subtle and minor. Doesn't that equate to just a minor difference in my overall experience?

I confess that deep down I want to do it, and am hoping someone here can talk me into it. Thanks for the responses. Still waiting to hear a really compelling argument. I wish I wasn't so practical...

It’s everything that I listed helps for me. It’s not just one thing.
True colors, depth and distinct lines help with my eyes.
The more true the colors are, the better chance I have of seeing the difference. Doesn’t always work but I would rather give myself the chance then not.

 

[LeaveMeHangin]

If you spend 4X more on binoculars you will NOT get 4X better performance. You will not get 4X more animals either. I have Zeiss SF’s that cost me $2k, and I love them but I doubt they will get me a single animal that I wouldn’t have gotten with $500 bins. If you go to cabelas and compare them you might not see why good bins are are worth the money, but when you use them in the field and see the difference in field of view, glare, 3D effect, contrast and lack of chromatic distortion you may change your mind.

I have done that, as much as I can (trying friend's expensive optics in the field to compare, and agree doing this in the store is almost useless). It hasn't changed my mind, yet... You mentioned a lot of good sales features, and I have observed those same minor differences. I just don't get how they are game breakers for the average recreational hunter. I do get how powerful modern marketing is! If I were a professional guide making a living at this, or a dedicated trophy hunter that spares no expense to judge every inch in any condition; then I might feel differently. I want to learn why so many of you feel it's worth it, and hopefully hear something that clicks with me. I'm sure there are many others here as well that will benefit, so this conversation is good.

I sometimes feel like people may want to justify their big purchases, even though in reality the differences are not as great as they hoped. Human nature says to convince yourself you did the right thing. I guess I'm trying to do the same.

Perhaps a previous poster was right. I'm not worthy...

I don't drive an expensive truck either, or go on lavish guided hunts...

 

[LeaveMeHangin]

@LeaveMeHangin, you are blessed to see no difference between a set of $300 va $3000 binos. I wistfully remember a time when I could clealy see a flicker of an ear a mile away through a cheap Bushnell spotting scope & so much game with an old 60s era Nikon porro prism bino even at half-past dark. I never felt the need to buy anything “better.” Enjoy your gift.

I didn't say no difference. Just not a justifiably huge difference, in my opinion.

 

[Hoodie]

I started off using Nikon Monarch binos, then I upgraded to Vortex Razor HD's.

The Razor HD's are great during the day, but are lacking during low light conditions.

If I would have just purchased some Swaro's, I would probably have saved myself some money, had better glass from the get go, and experienced less I strain using lesser quality glass.

I am buying some Swaro NL Pure 12x42 binos this year and calling it good.

Allbinos.com is a good source for reviews on binos. They run transmission tests on every pair they review.

The Razor HD 10x42 comes in at 86.8%, while the NL pure 10x42 (They didn´t review the 12x) comes in at 89.2%.

So 2.4% difference. I don´t know what size Razors you´re using currently but the smaller exit pupil of a 12x42 might be enough to negate the difference in low light performance.

Transmission scores obviously aren´t everything and neither is exit pupil. Just something to think about. If you´re firm on the magnification a 12x50 might work out better if low-light performance is what you´re after. Might be able to snag a used pair of ELs from someone upgrading to the NL Pures.

 

[Bubblehide]

The real reason you, or anyone else NEEDS high end binoculars or high end anything in general, is for when you are stopped by the warden. He or she will instantly recognize that you can afford to make a donation of support to our wildlife, even if it is not voluntary. Yep, it will get you instant recognition, and you know you want that .

Okay, moving on to a serious note, as has been said, the clarity and ability to stay behind high-end glass makes it so much easier to stay comfortable for longer periods of time. Think of high end glass like a high end woman, they are both just easy on the eyes, but not the pocketbook.

 

[CorbLand]

I have done that, as much as I can (trying friend's expensive optics in the field to compare, and agree doing this in the store is almost useless). It hasn't changed my mind, yet... You mentioned a lot of good sales features, and I have observed those same minor differences. I just don't get how they are game breakers for the average recreational hunter. I do get how powerful modern marketing is! If I were a professional guide making a living at this, or a dedicated trophy hunter that spares no expense to judge every inch in any condition; then I might feel differently. I want to learn why so many of you feel it's worth it, and hopefully hear something that clicks with me. I'm sure there are many others here as well that will benefit, so this conversation is good.

I sometimes feel like people may want to justify their big purchases, even though in reality the differences are not as great as they hoped. Human nature says to convince yourself you did the right thing. I guess I'm trying to do the same.

Perhaps a previous poster was right. I'm not worthy...

I don't drive an expensive truck either, or go on lavish guided hunts...

Sometimes people like to justify not spending money on better things. Kind of goes both ways. I would say you have spent more time justifying your purchase than any of those that may have 2000-3000 dollar binos.

Honestly, sounds like your mind is made up and what you have works for you. Good, now go hunting.

 

[Kenn]

"You mentioned a lot of good sales features, and I have observed those same minor differences. I just don't get how they are game breakers for the average recreational hunter."

My point is that they are not game breakers. Nor is driving an Audi A6 when you could get there just as easily with a 1979 Pinto Wagon, you just won't enjoy the ride as much.

 

[scott_co]

Allbinos.com is a good source for reviews on binos. They run transmission tests on every pair they review.

The Razor HD 10x42 comes in at 86.8%, while the NL pure 10x42 (They didn´t review the 12x) comes in at 89.2%.

So 2.4% difference. I don´t know what size Razors you´re using currently but the smaller exit pupil of a 12x42 might be enough to negate the difference in low light performance.

Transmission scores obviously aren´t everything and neither is exit pupil. Just something to think about. If you´re firm on the magnification a 12x50 might work out better if low-light performance is what you´re after. Might be able to snag a used pair of ELs from someone upgrading to the NL Pures.

Definitely good points to consider.

My Razor's are 10x42 so the exit pupil diameter is 4.2mm vs the NL Pure 12x42 exit pupil diameter of 3.5mm.

I believe the general quality of glass, increased light transmission, and increase in magnification (going from 10x-12x), will make the NL Pures nicer to use for my hunting (elk, mule deer, and antelope in CO and deer and hogs in TX).

I know myself...if I bought the EL's now, I would would most likely be pretty happy with them, but I would end up buying the NL Pures at some point in the future. So I am just going to bite the bullet now.

 

[Goatie]

Remember when you were 5 and cried when mom bought you the off brand of powdered cheese and elbow noodles instead of the much higher quality blue box of Kraft Mac and cheese? Yeah you knew the difference. Then, much later in life on a crazy night in college you splurged on velveeta shells and cheese and thought you’d found the pinnacle of haute cuisine?

Well, Swaros are like when your future in laws treat you to a fancy meal at Olive Garden and Mac and cheese will never again just be “noodles and cheese”.

The individual has to develop what they really value. I aspire to have a need or truly deserve a really spendy bino. Currently, in the off season, I’m cooking a mean “al dente” pasta dish at home while my binos are collecting dust. A lot of guys finding utility in good european glass are out in the snow while scouting for shed season.

Michelin Italian food or moistened gluten and salty powder... both get you full.

 

[bowhuntrben]

For me, I had a cheaper pair of binos. I rarely used them because I would get dizzy looking through them, and it just wasn't enjoyable. I never knew anything different and thought it was just me. Ended up getting a really good deal on Swaro SLCs, and now I realize the cheaper binos were the problem. I don't get dizzy anymore looking through them and I actually want to use them.

For my spotter, I had a not-so-cheap spotter that wasn't one of the top tier brands. One day when I was sighting in a rifle, I realized that I could hardly even see where I was hitting, and the thing was pretty useless. I decided to upgrade. Having spent more than enough on that first spotter, I didn't want to spend a lot of money on another and be disappointed...so I got the best. Again, I was patient, and I waited until I could get a really good deal on it. I also justified getting the one I got because I wanted the best I could have for digiscoping.

Having good glass, I find myself wanting to go out and use it more. I spend more time outside just watching the birds and observing nature now that I have good glass to look through. Maybe it's that I feel I need to make sure I'm putting all that money to good use. Either way, I like the fact that it's given me more reason to just go sit outside rather than be inside any more than I have to be.

For me a bigger justification is the fact that hunting is my biggest passion outside of family. Going on a trip out west hunting each year is my main entertainment for the entire year. If I can have a tool that makes my time even more enjoyable, I will use it. Is it necessary? No. Is it worth it? For me, yes.

I should also say that I took the spotter out with the wife and kids a couple weeks ago to watch the eagles. As soon as I set it up and got it so everybody could watch the eagles through it, my wife said it was worth the money.

 

[Bkdc]

I know myself...if I bought the EL's now, I would would most likely be pretty happy with them, but I would end up buying the NL Pures at some point in the future. So I am just going to bite the bullet now.

Try before you buy. I have the fortune of owning both a NL and EL. If I were loaning my aging father a bino, I would definitely give him the EL because of a significantly more forgiving eye placement in achieving the full FOV without any blackouts. There is just a lot more forgiveness with the EL. Some brains don’t do as well in trying to merge two huge and flat views from left and right. Both are world class binoculars. The NL is almost perfection unless you prefer field curvature or extreme ease of eye placement.

I imagine glassing with the NL on a tripod is a PITA because the eye placement is less forgiving if you want full FOV. If you don’t mind getting less than the full field, it’s probably similar to a EL.

if the size of the eye box and ergonomics weren’t an issue, I would be very very happy owning Meostars as I think the optics and warranty service are premium level and give up almost nothing to a Leica or Swarovski SLC. And well..... as with the numerous aggressively pricing new bino makers, I don’t think they will be around in 20 years to honor the lifetime warranty if something happens to a recent-startup-brand claiming alpha-competitive optics binocular goes bad.

I wonder what the original poster would say if his job were that of a surgical pathologist and he spent hours a day staring through a microscope trying to make diagnoses. Would he want a Zeiss scope or would he think the Global Industries scope at 1/3 the cost did the same job without tiring his eyes and brain out. He is blessed if he can’t tell the difference. That’s a lot of savings.

 

[Xlr8n]

-If you use your glass for just a few minutes at a time just to see if a buck has come into the field yet, $500 binos will suit you fine.
-If you are looking for legal animals at first and last light, spending hours trying to spot animals a mile or more away, or trying to count and measure tines rather than just seeing horns, then Alpha-level glass is worth its weight in gold.
-Until you find yourself in those extreme situations while actually comparing good glass to great glass, you'll never truly appreciate the differences. Once you have experienced them, you'll never go back to cheaper glass.

 

[JonnyB]

I thought it wasn’t worth it either. Then I upgraded to alpha glass and realized that I didn’t get a migraine after 2 hours of glassing... I actually didn’t get one at all, even after 7-10 days in my glass. Due to my astigmatism, cheap glass really takes a toll on my eyes and head.

Another thing is, I paid 1400 for one pair of my SLCs brand new, and could sell them for that much on the classifieds probably. I have two pairs of vortex that I could maybe get half of what I paid for one pair and about 1/3 of what I paid for the other. That alone made it easy to buy 2 more pairs of SLCs and an ATX, then an ATM.

Just food for thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Laelkhunter]

I guess I justify spending high dollar prices on my optics (Swarovski scope and Swarovski EL Range) by saying it gives me comfort and confidence in my equipment. If I drive 24 hours for a once a year Elk hunt, I want to be able to have confidence that my optics will do what they are supposed to do when I need them like not fogging up, or holding their zero. If you are finally able to get within range of a nice Bull, you don't want to have to pass on the shot because you can't see him through your fogged up scope- How much money do you actually save if that happens? Of course there is always a possibility the optics can fail, no matter how much you spend on them, but I feel there is less of a chance by paying for high end optics.
I don't regret spending the money I did on Swarovski, and I could have gotten by with what I consider "lower quality", but I didn't want to chance it. My opinion only, YMMV.

 

[Hoodie]

Try before you buy. I have the fortune of owning both a NL and EL. If I were loaning my aging father a bino, I would definitely give him the EL because of a significantly more forgiving eye placement in achieving the full FOV without any blackouts. There is just a lot more forgiveness with the EL. Some brains don’t do as well in trying to merge two huge and flat views from left and right. Both are world class binoculars. The NL is almost perfection unless you prefer field curvature or extreme ease of eye placement.

I imagine glassing with the NL on a tripod is a PITA because the eye placement is less forgiving if you want full FOV. If you don’t mind getting less than the full field, it’s probably similar to a EL.

if the size of the eye box and ergonomics weren’t an issue, I would be very very happy owning Meostars as I think the optics and warranty service are premium level and give up almost nothing to a Leica or Swarovski SLC. And well..... as with the numerous aggressively pricing new bino makers, I don’t think they will be around in 20 years to honor the lifetime warranty if something happens to a recent-startup-brand claiming alpha-competitive optics binocular goes bad.

I wonder what the original poster would say if his job were that of a surgical pathologist and he spent hours a day staring through a microscope trying to make diagnoses. Would he want a Zeiss scope or would he think the Global Industries scope at 1/3 the cost did the same job without tiring his eyes and brain out. He is blessed if he can’t tell the difference. That’s a lot of savings.

FWIW Meopta´s been around since 1933, so if the concern that they won´t be around to warranty is a big one for you, I wouldn´t sweat it. They´ve been making good glass for close to a century. They make, grind, and coat their own glass and have actually made optics for Zeiss. I believe the Zeiss Conquest line of riflescopes was basically a repackaged Meopro. People might be surprised how often essentially the same optic gets a different rubber armor slapped on it, different eye cups, and gets marketed as its own thing. Sometimes with a radically different number on the price tag.

I think that´s a totally valid concern with plenty of other companies though. Loads of optics companies using Chinese OEMs fold after a few years.

Totally agree with you on a small exit pupil making eye placement critical.

 

[SomeJackassOnAForum]

How many $300 pairs of binos does it take to equal an EL 42? 7? How many guys do you think have gone through 7 $300 pairs of binos since the Swarovision EL came out in 2009, or since the original EL came out in 1999? There are guys out there with SLC 8X30s from the 1980s!

It's the same mentality of buying cheap ikea furniture every 5 years, or buying nice furniture once. No one will make you change your mind if you don't care.

 

[Str8shooter]

If you dont have the time to truly develop your game eye (100s of hours of glassing per year) dont worry with alpha. If you are spending most of the year scouting and hunting multiple species/seasons and have invested in spot and stalk as your primary strategy then alpha becomes more "worth it". Those discussing the $/value relationship as non-linear are correct. You dont get 2x the bino for twice the cost once you are in mid tier glass. Objective measures such as light transmission, FOV and relative brightness only increase by a couple % points from mid tier to alpha whereas price can double. If I was hunting one or 2 weeks a year, no way would I drop EL money on glass, $500 glass would be a great tool. Since live 40 minutes from elk country and I hunt from Sept to Jan, and scout most all year, I found the value in Alphas to be justified. Ive said it before, Id put someone with a great game eye with mid/tier to low or even no glass over a less experienced game eye with alpha glass any day. Glass is a tool, the tool users skill is primary.

 

[Hoodie]

I would say if your hunting style is glassing intensive, $300 probably isn´t the price point to compare to $3k.

The argument becomes difficult when you´re talking about something like a Meostar HD vs something that costs 2 or 3x as much.

It seems like the offerings around the $1k price point consistently get mentioned as the best actual value in binos. I can´t imagine too many guys really need more than a Monarch HG or a Meostar HD. If a guy or gal was frugal but wanted good glass, that´s what I´d recommend. There´s nothing wrong with buying top tier, and it comes with the real benefit of having the confidence that there isn´t anything to upgrade to.

If you´re using 12x Vortex Diamondbacks for 4 hours you might get a headache. I´ve pulled some loooong glassing sessions with 12x50 Meostars. I haven´t had the pleasure of sitting behind the 12x50 EL, but I just can´t realistically imagine it´s radically different. If the Meostars give you a headache, I don´t know that a pair of binos costing $3k is going to fix it. You might just want to buy some advil.

All $1k binos are not created equal. I tried the 12x50 Razors before the Meostars because they were significantly lighter. I couldn´t deal with the CA. CA is basically non-existent in the Meostar.