Help me understand hunting with Berger bullets!

[SDHNTR]

One thing I don’t understand, and you can see it in this thread, is people all seem to refer to Berger’s collectively. As if they are all the same. People don’t make any distinction between which Berger they used. Yet Berger offers lots of different kinds of bullets that are supposed to do different things. Is it because the differences are too subtle and don’t matter?

You never just hear anyone say Noslers shoot great for me. Noslers do a lot of damage. Noslers are destructive. It’s always specified with Partitions, Accubonds, Ballistic tips.

Why are Berger’s all treated the same when people talk about them?

 

[Chase16]

Berger bullets do not "open" as many have stated here. They tumble end over end due to the lack of shoulder stabilization when they enter terminal media. When they begin this tumble, the nose will shear off and you get the dramatic berger effect. It is how they are able to combine explosive performance and very adequate penetration (which is caused by the long neck, or upset length before this tumble happens). However, this type of expansion can be more erratic than a tipped or exposed lead bullet, because there is no mechanism to initiate expansion on bergers. This is why you hear so much YMMV with them, some people love them and some people hate them.

Berger hunting jackets are actually thinner than their target jackets to promote them opening up, since they don't have tip-initiated expansion. This is in contrast to something like a Hornady eldx that will have a thicker jacket than eldm. Hornady knows it's going to expand because of the tip, so they try and control that with jacket thickness. Berger knows it will penetrate because it doesn't open right away, so they try and facilitate expansion with a thinner jacket.

Using any bullet, its good to know their performance envelope and what will make them fail (because all bullets will) and choose the right bullet for your hunting style/terminal requirements. For HPBT (berger included), this is generally delayed or lack of expansion due to the bullet taking longer to tumble. This is generally observed at lower velocities below 1800fps. Knowing this, you can alter shot placement a little bit and favor some shoulder with diminished velocity to help out here.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Why are Berger’s all treated the same when people talk about them?

I've killed a pile of big game with Bergers and in my experience they all behave very similar. The only ones I haven't used are the factory pointed versions but Hybrids, VLDs, Elite Hunters all basically do the same thing terminally. The only one I've lost faith in is the 7mm 195, I'd gladly use any of the others without being picky.

 

[Jordan Smith]

The VLD Target comes apart less aggressively than the VLD Hunting, in my limited sample size.

 

[cuerro viejo]

One thing I don’t understand, and you can see it in this thread, is people all seem to refer to Berger’s collectively. As if they are all the same. People don’t make any distinction between which Berger they used. Yet Berger offers lots of different kinds of bullets that are supposed to do different things. Is it because the differences are too subtle and don’t matter?

You never just hear anyone say Noslers shoot great for me. Noslers do a lot of damage. Noslers are destructive. It’s always specified with Partitions, Accubonds, Ballistic tips.

Why are Berger’s all treated the same when people talk about them?

All Berger are open’ish tip cup and core bullets. Only difference in bullet construction on Bergers is essentially micro adjustment on jacket thickness. Some weights you can get subtle nose cavity differences then lower weight same caliber. There is a difference in tangent/secant ogive but overall construction really doesn’t change, where there is a distinct difference in a chemically bonded Accubond vs Partition vs HPBT

 

[justin davis]

One thing I don’t understand, and you can see it in this thread, is people all seem to refer to Berger’s collectively. As if they are all the same. People don’t make any distinction between which Berger they used. Yet Berger offers lots of different kinds of bullets that are supposed to do different things. Is it because the differences are too subtle and don’t matter?

You never just hear anyone say Noslers shoot great for me. Noslers do a lot of damage. Noslers are destructive. It’s always specified with Partitions, Accubonds, Ballistic tips.

Why are Berger’s all treated the same when people talk about them?

I think people always say “Berger’s are great” because Berger’s seems to always shoot better and are more consistent than a lot of other bullet manufactures. Berger’s don’t vary lot to lot like some other bullets do. And in general while they are different types they are seems to behave and preform the same.

 

[Clarson757]

Monitor county rifles meplat uniformer too

Is this only to be used on projectiles? Or can I use it on some factory loads I have?

 

[Fetty Wapiti]

I have had a multitude of Berger failures, they simply do not open on thin skinned game like pronghorn when shooting double lung. Hit the shoulder and they explode. A happy medium would be much preferred. I for one do not promote using them as hunting bullets. I will stick with ELD's and Hammers for all future hunting uses.

 

[AKmatt]

I shot my bear this past spring with a 175 Berger EH out of a 7PRC. MV at 2850. The shot was 165yards and the bear was quartering two me pretty hard. Entered in front of the shoulder, found the mangled jacket on the offside hide just before the last rib and both lungs were literally bloody soup.

 

[Fetty Wapiti]

I have

I shot my bear this past spring with a 175 Berger EH out of a 7PRC. MV at 2850. The shot was 165yards and the bear was quartering two me pretty hard. Entered in front of the shoulder, found the mangled jacket on the offside hide just before the last rib and both lungs were literally bloody soup.

Seen great results like this more often than not, but too inconsistent for my tastes. Everyone loves berger bullets, until they fail. It is not an if, but a when.

 

[justin davis]

I have had a multitude of Berger failures, they simply do not open on thin skinned game like pronghorn when shooting double lung. Hit the shoulder and they explode. A happy medium would be much preferred. I for one do not promote using them as hunting bullets. I will stick with ELD's and Hammers for all future hunting uses.

What berger out of what cartridge?

I shoot coyotes with 108 elite hunters out of a 6 creedmoor and 80.5 fullbores out of a 22 creedmoor. I often dont get exits on coyotes with those bullets. And Coyotes are pretty thin and soft

 

[AKmatt]

I have had a multitude of Berger failures, they simply do not open on thin skinned game like pronghorn when shooting double lung. Hit the shoulder and they explode. A happy medium would be much preferred. I for one do not promote using them as hunting bullets. I will stick with ELD's and Hammers for all future hunting uses.

How much difference is there in the ELD's and a Berger EH in your experience?

 

[WeiserBucks]

I have had a multitude of Berger failures, they simply do not open on thin skinned game like pronghorn when shooting double lung.

I've seen several antelope shot with Bergers and the expansion was the same as every other animal I've ever seen shot with them.

How many failures have you seen yourself? 5? 25?

 

[Fetty Wapiti]

What berger out of what cartridge?

I shoot coyotes with 108 elite hunters out of a 6 creedmoor and 80.5 fullbores out of a 22 creedmoor. I often dont get exits on coyotes with those bullets. And Coyotes are pretty thin and soft

Most of my problems have been with 140 VLDH and the EH, but most all are with 140 vld

 

[Jellymon1]

I have had a multitude of Berger failures, they simply do not open on thin skinned game like pronghorn when shooting double lung. Hit the shoulder and they explode. A happy medium would be much preferred. I for one do not promote using them as hunting bullets. I will stick with ELD's and Hammers for all future hunting uses.

We’ve seen the opposite on piles of thin skinned animals without a single failure from 5+ cartridges and varying bullet weights.

 

[justin davis]

Most of my problems have been with 140 VLDH and the EH, but most all are with 140 vld

Most of my problems have been with 140 VLDH and the EH, but most all are with 140 vld

Gotcha Wonder if the tips were clogged?

 

[eoperator]

Berger bullets do not "open" as many have stated here. They tumble

This is my belief as well.

I have killed many animals with several different bergers without cleaning tips, not a failure yet.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Expand or tumble?

 

[LightFoot]

.284 180 Hybrid, impact velocity ~2450fps at impact. 2x hits, though one was enough. No exits. Thoracic cavity looked like chili.

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[LightFoot]

.284 180 Hybrid ~2700fps impact velocity.
1x high shoulder and lights out. No exit.

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