Help me choose a scope for my sheep rifle

[Jake Larsen]

I hunt a Tikka stainless in a Stocky’s VG stock with a PBB 16” 6creed barrel. It’s like 7lbs, 3oz on the dot topped with Sportsmatch rings, a NF NXS 2.5-10x42 and fully loaded. It has enough velocity for reliable bullet expansion out to 640 yards.

Sounds like a sweet lightweight build! This will be a 7mm SAW 2. Basically a 7mm-08 improved. I’ll be able to get 165gr seeds in the 2700-2800fps range out of a 20” barrel, with only 45gr ish of powder. Out of a lightweight supresssed rig, it will be pretty mild, and will have reliable expansion at or past my top end hunting ranges. I thought about 6Creed quite a lot for this rifle. It’ll be a multi purpose sheep/deer/bears/elk backpack gun, so I went with a cartridge that’ll push a little heavier bullet. Was originally settled on 7mm-08 with extended mag for seating long, until I discovered the 7mm SAW. It allows me to shoot the bullet I want at the speeds I’m looking to get out of a short barrel with ease.


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[Oregonmuley]

Happy to help - and good choice on the caliber The rifle in the picture is a 7MM-08 and have its twin in same only in brown colored Proof stock. For your intended hunting I think you will be happy with the NXS. I've only been using mine for I think 3 seasons but have no complaints.

 

[Jake Larsen]

The only potential negative of FFP is poor visibility at low magnification. The SB Klassic 3-12x42 is an awesome reticle that doesn’t have that issue. I promise it checks all your boxes haha.

And it’s a giant glaring negative, making the scope dang near useless in lots of realistic hunting scenarios, at least where I hunt. Speaking from experience.

I’ve killed a lot of animals in the mountains on backpack style hunts. I hunt steep rugged and high elevation. More often than not, the light suck, the weather sucks, and the background is highly varied with lights/darks. Also, most of the animals I’ve killed were inside 300 yards, and lots of them have been inside 200 in dense cover (very dark background of vegetation) I want no more than 4 or 5x max for those shots. FFP scopes range from less than ideal to totally useless in those conditions. If I look back at all the shots I’ve taken, I’d say somewhere in the 70-80% of them fall into that category.

Why build a system that is ideal for a 20-30% situation, and less than ideal for the 70-80%? I choose to build my systems (rifle and other gear) for the scenarios that are most likely to occur, then push out to the margins of capability from there. I don’t hate FFP, they have their place. Just not the right tool for the job for me, for this purpose.

Would FFP be better on a 600-700 yard holdover shot? Definitely. Will that shot ever happen? Maybe, likely not. Will a 100-200 yard shot in poor light conditions on a dark background happen? Yes.

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[Ecampbell25]

From my personal research the next scope I purchase for my sheep rifle is between these three :

Swfa 2.5 x 10 x 32 ( if I can find one )

Nightforce shv 3x10 x 42

Nightforce nxs 2.5 x 10 x 42

I just don’t think you can put a price tag on the the night force.

Plane rides from the lower 48 to wherever you head to hunt sheep can do a number on scopes.

Or just sheep hunting in general can do a number on them. If you can afford it.

Nightforce for the win.

 

[atmat]

And it’s a giant glaring negative, making the scope dang near useless in lots of realistic hunting scenarios, at least where I hunt. Speaking from experience.

I’ve killed a lot of animals in the mountains on backpack style hunts. I hunt steep rugged and high elevation. More often than not, the light suck, the weather sucks, and the background is highly varied with lights/darks. Also, most of the animals I’ve killed were inside 300 yards, and lots of them have been inside 200 in dense cover (very dark background of vegetation) I want no more than 4 or 5x max for those shots. FFP scopes range from less than ideal to totally useless in those conditions. If I look back at all the shots I’ve taken, I’d say somewhere in the 70-80% of them fall into that category.

Why build a system that is ideal for a 20-30% situation, and less than ideal for the 70-80%? I choose to build my systems (rifle and other gear) for the scenarios that are most likely to occur, then push out to the margins of capability from there. I don’t hate FFP, they have their place. Just not the right tool for the job for me, for this purpose.

Would FFP be better on a 600-700 yard holdover shot? Definitely. Will that shot ever happen? Maybe, likely not. Will a 100-200 yard shot in poor light conditions on a dark background happen? Yes.

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Have you looked through a 3-12x42 Klassic? If not, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I agree with you: tons of FFP reticles are AWFUL for hunting. The Klassic looks exactly like a Duplex reticle at low power. It’s really, really good. I hunt a lot of dark hardwoods and it’s as good as any reticle I’ve used.

 

[ljalberta]

I have a FFP SWFA 3-9 and LRHS 3-12, and there are no issues with low end visibility. It may just be a bad experience with poor reticle selection.

As a note on ring and rail combos, Murphy can do a rail in Aluminum too if you’re really concerned with cutting ounces, and depending on the rifle and desired design, can make a lower rail than is often commercially available.

Combined with a really low ring like the Ken Farrells (and if required, a bevel cut by Murphy on the rail), it’s about as low as you can get on a ring and rail mounting solution.

 

[wind gypsy]

I’ll have to call Falkor and see if the defiance aluminum rail will fit. If not, I found Murphy Precision. Sounds like He’ll custom build a titanium rail for whatever oddball spacing you need. Any issue with titanium that you’re aware of?

Also, when you say “higher rings” how high are we talking? I’ve never set up a pic rail, so it’s all new to me. Looks like the Nightforce ULs have a ton of height options…


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I’d not be concerned with titanium but that’s not because I’m particularly educated about it. Just don’t see why it’d be a problem. I have a murphy ti rail for a m700 to save weight.

I’d probably bed whatever rail to the action just to feel more confident about it. It’s very simple, broz had a good how to video on it.

The only reason you’d need higher rings with a rail is if the objective end hits the front of it. As others have said, you can spec one to eliminate that issue with murphy. They are great to work with. I needed higher rings to direct mount to a tikka rail because the bell didn’t clear the barrel shank with the beloved lower sportsmatch rings.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Have you looked through a 3-12x42 Klassic? If not, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I agree with you: tons of FFP reticles are AWFUL for hunting. The Klassic looks exactly like a Duplex reticle at low power. It’s really, really good. I hunt a lot of dark hardwoods and it’s as good as any reticle I’ve used.

Fair point on the reticle, I haven’t looked through one. I have owned multiple high end scopes both FFP and SFP. I’ve tried to solve the reticle issue in the past. I had a 3-12 LRHS, Mark 5HD, SWFA 3-9. For me, my eyes, I prefer SFP. Not saying you’re wrong, it’s just my preference based on a LOT of real world field use. I’ve got literally hundreds of days of hunting/guiding in the past few years to go on.

FFP isn’t the only thing that’s a dealbreaker for the S&B. Fixed parallax and capped elevation turret. Total unknown quantity on the durability/reliability of tracking and holding zero (check out Form’s drop tests in the LR forum if you haven’t already). Not a lot of users to get an idea either. As others have also stated, you absolutely cannot afford to have a scope that can’t take a bit of a beating on a backpack style sheep hunt.


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[Formidilosus]

FFP isn’t the only thing that’s a dealbreaker for the S&B. Fixed parallax and capped elevation turret. Total unknown quantity on the durability/reliability of tracking and holding zero (check out Form’s drop tests in the LR forum if you haven’t already). Not a lot of users to get an idea either. As others have also stated, you absolutely cannot afford to have a scope that can’t take a bit of a beating on a backpack style sheep hunt.

Every one of your points about the S&B 3-12x42mm scope with P3 reticle is incorrect. @atmat is giving very solid information.
The Klassik 3-12x42mm is in general a reliable and durable scope. The P3 reticle is very bold, and is the same on 3x as most SFP duplex reticles are- there is zero issues in light with it. The scope is available with an exposed elevation turret.

While the NF NXS 2.5-10x is a very reliable scope and probably the best hunting scope NF makes, it’s reticle selection is relatively poor, and it’s Mil and MOA reticles are less visible on 2.5x than the S&B P3’s.

 

[180ls1]

They aren't popular here but the VX5 is worth a look. I like the clarity and light performance even if I give up durability.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Every one of your points about the S&B 3-12x42mm scope with P3 reticle is incorrect. @atmat is giving very solid information.
The Klassik 3-12x42mm is in general a reliable and durable scope. The P3 reticle is very bold, and is the same on 3x as most SFP duplex reticles are- there is zero issues in light with it. The scope is available with an exposed elevation turret.

While the NF NXS 2.5-10x is a very reliable scope and probably the best hunting scope NF makes, it’s reticle selection is relatively poor, and it’s Mil and MOA reticles are less visible on 2.5x than the S&B P3’s.

Have you tested it? I checked in the forum, didn’t see anything but I could have missed it.

I also searched on here and other forums and found relatively very little info on the scope. It’s clear that some people are using it, just seems like a tiny fraction compared to other scopes. Nice to hear it’s got a good reputation

Every picture is saw of the scope had a capped turret. Good to know there’s another option!

I’m not worried about out the visibility of the NSX reticle on 2.5x. How’s it look on 4-5x? That’s my preference for an inside 200 yard shot. I’ll start dialing/holding at 250, so it’s going to 10x at that point anyways. L

I know a lot of you guys that are serious LR shooters feel that FFP is the only way to go. I understand why and agree for LR shooting. For short to mid distance, hunting style shooting, there’s also a lot of very serious hunters/shooters that think SFP is better. We’re not all wrong haha. It’s a preference


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[TaperPin]

If you’d ever hunted sheep country you wouldn’t be asking “why ultralight” haha. My current rifle is in the same weight range. With practice and good ergonomics on a stock, 7-8 lbs finished rifles can be shot well at mid/long ish ranges.

Budget has nothing to do with it, an NX 8 just doesn’t fit inside the parameters of the intended use. Different tools for different jobs. If I was building a dedicated long range rifle, it’d be 10 lbs with a 4-16 ATACR on it


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I like your specs for the rifle - scrambling up and down rocks all day with a 9 lb rifle in one hand gets old quick.

 

[Southern Lights]

The S&B is a good scope. They have an elevation turret option. The P3 reticle is one of the best I've used in FFP. I considered getting one over the NF, but just use NF too much with no problems to want to switch.

I agree that NF reticles are generally poor. I hate the Mil-R reticle. The gaps in the stadia are a distraction and force you need to count gaps which is bad news when under pressure. I just want a simple line with hashes to hold off.

My NXS is actually the older mildot which is OK, but I think the P3 trumps it.

 

[atmat]

Every picture is saw of the scope had a capped turret. Good to know there’s another option!

Schmidt Bender 3-12x42mm Klassik LM P3L BDC H Riflescope 645-811-882-40-05A02

FREE SHIPPING on Schmidt Bender 3-12x42mm Klassik LM P3L BDC H Riflescope 645-811-882-40-05A02

www.eurooptic.com

Capped windage, zero stop, exposed elevation turret, 22oz, >10x zoom range (you said you'd like that), illumination, robust/drop safe, extremely visible reticle, and excellent glass.

I was worried about fixed parallax, but I had never had an issue with it honestly. And I got to shooting paper way out there with it.

I just sold mine but only because I'm at sea level and was beginning to be limited by the 4.8mil (unless I zero'd further and ran a 10MOA rail).

 

[Jake Larsen]

Schmidt Bender 3-12x42mm Klassik LM P3L BDC H Riflescope 645-811-882-40-05A02

FREE SHIPPING on Schmidt Bender 3-12x42mm Klassik LM P3L BDC H Riflescope 645-811-882-40-05A02

www.eurooptic.com

Capped windage, zero stop, exposed elevation turret, 22oz, >10x zoom range (you said you'd like that), illumination, robust/drop safe, extremely visible reticle, and excellent glass.

I was worried about fixed parallax, but I had never had an issue with it honestly. And I got to shooting paper way out there with it.

I just sold mine but only because I'm at sea level and was beginning to be limited by the 4.8mil (unless I zero'd further and ran a 10MOA rail).

I’ve had good luck using parallax to read mirage/make wind calls.

When you say drop safe, that’s based on?

Definitely starting to sound like a very good FFP hunting option. I’ve just had some terrible experience with FFP in the past for hunting, it’d take some doing to get me to trust it haha. An FFP scope cost me a 190+ deer, and made what should be easy shots on game difficult more than once for me.


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[atmat]

I’ve had good luck using parallax to read mirage/make wind calls.

When you say drop safe, that’s based on?

Definitely starting to sound like a very good FFP hunting option. I’ve just had some terrible experience with FFP in the past for hunting, it’d take some doing to get me to trust it haha. An FFP scope cost me a 190+ deer, and made what should be easy shots on game difficult more than once for me.


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There’s a handful of us here using them, several of us have dropped them. I’ve also dialed it up and down like crazy. And traveled with it plenty.

@Formidilosus tested a different SB Klassic model and was one of the folks who talked me into trying the 3-12 Klassic.

It it came with 10 mils travel I’d still have it. But sea level and a 16” barrel limited out the 4.8

Re: Parallax — EuroOptic gives you a week or so to return it, as long as it’s not mounted. Pick one up and look at whatever distances you want. I had no issue with missing it.

 

[Jake Larsen]

There’s a handful of us here using them, several of us have dropped them. I’ve also dialed it up and down like crazy. And traveled with it plenty.

@Formidilosus tested a different SB Klassic model and was one of the folks who talked me into trying the 3-12 Klassic.

It it came with 10 mils travel I’d still have it. But sea level and a 16” barrel limited out the 4.8

Re: Parallax — EuroOptic gives you a week or so to return it, as long as it’s not mounted. Pick one up and look at whatever distances you want. I had no issue with missing it.

I’ll have to check it out. Definitely sounds pretty intriguing!


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[Jake Larsen]

The S&B is a good scope. They have an elevation turret option. The P3 reticle is one of the best I've used in FFP. I considered getting one over the NF, but just use NF too much with no problems to want to switch.

I agree that NF reticles are generally poor. I hate the Mil-R reticle. The gaps in the stadia are a distraction and force you need to count gaps which is bad news when under pressure. I just want a simple line with hashes to hold off.

My NXS is actually the older mildot which is OK, but I think the P3 trumps it.

Poor feedback on the Mil-R surprises me. Just looking at photos of it, l thought it’d be pretty nice.


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[Jake Larsen]

I like your specs for the rifle - scrambling up and down rocks all day with a 9 lb rifle in one hand gets old quick.

Yea haha. Not uncommon to do 50-100 miles at high elevation in steep/semi technical terrain on a backpack sheep hunt.


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[wind gypsy]

Every one of your points about the S&B 3-12x42mm scope with P3 reticle is incorrect. @atmat is giving very solid information.
The Klassik 3-12x42mm is in general a reliable and durable scope. The P3 reticle is very bold, and is the same on 3x as most SFP duplex reticles are- there is zero issues in light with it. The scope is available with an exposed elevation turret.

While the NF NXS 2.5-10x is a very reliable scope and probably the best hunting scope NF makes, it’s reticle selection is relatively poor, and it’s Mil and MOA reticles are less visible on 2.5x than the S&B P3’s.

Form beat me to the bolder point. Taking a SFP scope with a thin reticle designed to be precise still at max mag doesn’t leave you with a highly visible reticle at low power even if it doesn’t shrink with the mag. I only had the MOAR NXS compact and the reticle was thin. Wasn’t a problem though just like good ffp reticles haven’t been a problem for close shots.