Help Me Archery Experts

[Kularrow]

I agree that the get closer practice more posts are unhelpful. I would prefer those people STFU as well. You can build a system that gives you the opportunity to break bone. It just depends on your budget. You can call Brent at Valkyrie. You can use Iron Wills custom arrow builder as well. You can even use Ranch Fairy’s system with Sirius. All will give you very heavy shafts with bullet proof components, and insanely durable sharp broadheads. Just be prepared to pay a hefty price.

That’s right Zac I’ll shut up while you advocate overly expensive and unnecessary hunting gear to overcompensate for something as simple as not taking a marginal shot.

 

[Kularrow]

Compare our profile pics and get back to me.


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Spoken like a true hunter.

 

[Zac]

That’s right Zac I’ll shut up while you advocate overly expensive and unnecessary hunting gear to overcompensate for something as simple as not taking a marginal shot.

Thank you

 

[jlw0142]

I settled on a grain weight for my broadheads (in my case 100gr) and then tinkered with insert/component weights instead of spending more money on broadheads.

I don't glue inserts in permanently anymore though, I use blue glue and glue the broadhead and insert into the arrow as one piece. I've found it saves a lot of hassle when trying to set the depth of the insert and indexing broadheads.

That’s a great idea. Thanks man


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[jlw0142]

Perfect! I think that's relevant information for sure. I had read your comments I quoted and filled in the blanks for myself to something like "he says he cares about being precise, and then scapula shot, I bet he is aiming at the scapula thinking he is holding tight behind it".

Do you think a faster arrow would have gotten to the ribs before the scapula moved to block it?

For bareshafts, I leave the bases on and just clip the wing of the vane off so there's like 1/8" rib. I have no evidence it matters, but it makes me feel better hypothesizing that I am more like 10gr off rather than 20gr..

That’s what I have been wondering about with the arrow speed. In that particular case, it was just bad timing and it couldn’t have been avoided. But I have also had a doe duck my arrow. That’s super interesting about leaving the rib on, that’s a good point


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[MattB]

I personally like your current set-up better than what you are considering spending a bunch of money to change to.

 

[Felix40]

Your setup is already a good happy medium. There’s a good chance you are going to sink a bunch of time and money into reinventing it for a scenario that shouldn’t happen anyway. Your setup would go through a whitetail scapula. The humerus is a small target and it doesn’t really block the vitals. I wouldn’t plan my whole arrow around shooting through that. Estimating range and shooting through limbs/trees are going to be way harder when you slow your arrows down a bunch.

I would start by turning the bow up to 70# if you can handle it.

Make sure your arrows are flying perfectly.

Add an impact collar to the front of the arrow. My experience with axis is that they like to splinter at the front with hard impacts.

 

[Stache Attack]

Okay, so you like less FOC, gotcha. Honestly I’m not really sure about my arrow speed, but I think 260-270. Yeah, my draw length is definitely not optimal and is most likely why I have had trouble with broadhead tuning in the past. Yeah, it’s unfortunate about the shoulder shot situation and I have had good penetration with my QADs before but losing that buck mentally destroyed me and I feel like I would’ve had a different outcome with 1-2 inches more of penetration. How heavy do you think I can get on the front? I have the 50 gr inserts in already, so should I stick to 100gr or move up to 125 or 150?


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Use the insert and stick with 100 or 125. You don’t want to get super slow as you don’t have speed to give up. Don’t know if shoulder was from a turn or miss placed shot. I do know if you get below 250 you’ll miss if you don’t shorten range or learn the bow more.

You likely will need new top hats either way with the added weight to get the best tune

 

[IrkedCitizen]

Currently 27 inch 300 spine Easton axis 4mm with 50 gr half-outs, 100 gr QAD exodus, 3 vane (Bohning X, 3 inch)


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If you are going to make a change I would change to Victory RIP TKO shafts. I would toss the stock insert and nocks in the garbage and use Iron Will 25gr HIT inserts and Bohning A nocks. As for the broadhead I would go with 125gr. I am partial to Flex Fletch vanes and four fletch. I use FFS-212 vanes that are 2.12" long .375" tall and weigh 3.8gr each.

RIP TKO .300 spine 8.8gpi
26.5" carbon length 233.2gr
A nock 7gr
IW HIT 25gr
Tip 125gr
4 FFS-212 15.2gr
Wrap 5gr
Glue 9gr (roughly 1.5gr per fletch, 3gr insert)
419.4gr total depending on how heavily the glue is applied.

This arrow will kill everything in North America with proper shot placement. If you want more weight you can go heavier on the IW HIT.

 

[jlw0142]

If you are going to make a change I would change to Victory RIP TKO shafts. I would toss the stock insert and nocks in the garbage and use Iron Will 25gr HIT inserts and Bohning A nocks. As for the broadhead I would go with 125gr. I am partial to Flex Fletch vanes and four fletch. I use FFS-212 vanes that are 2.12" long .375" tall and weigh 3.8gr each.

RIP TKO .300 spine 8.8gpi
26.5" carbon length 233.2gr
A nock 7gr
IW HIT 25gr
Tip 125gr
4 FFS-212 15.2gr
Wrap 5gr
Glue 9gr (roughly 1.5gr per fletch, 3gr insert)
419.4gr total depending on how heavily the glue is applied.

This arrow will kill everything in North America with proper shot placement. If you want more weight you can go heavier on the IW HIT.

I like it, thank you. Will definitely give it a try. I assume you shoot it?


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[IrkedCitizen]

I like it, thank you. Will definitely give it a try. I assume you shoot it?


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I shoot Easton ACC 3-71 shafts. They are discontinued now but I have 2 dozen shafts remaining. When I need new arrows that is the route I will go. I hunt with 125gr Iron Will solid blade heads.

 

[jlw0142]

I shoot Easton ACC 3-71 shafts. They are discontinued now but I have 2 dozen shafts remaining. When I need new arrows that is the route I will go. I hunt with 125gr Iron Will solid blade heads.

Gotcha. I’ve heard great things about 125 IWs. Why don’t you like the Easton Axis?


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[IrkedCitizen]

Axis shafts are heavier than they need to be. Other companies are making shafts just as durable and maybe even more durable with lighter gpi shafts for the same spine. I am glad you are shooting axis over the FMJ because FMJ are junk.

I also dislike half-out inserts that's why I suggest throwing the victory insert in the garbage.

 

[jlw0142]

Axis shafts are heavier than they need to be. Other companies are making shafts just as durable and maybe even more durable with lighter gpi shafts for the same spine. I am glad you are shooting axis over the FMJ because FMJ are junk.

I also dislike half-out inserts that's why I suggest throwing the victory insert in the garbage.

Alright, good insight. Why no half-outs?


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[IrkedCitizen]

Half-outs have a tendency to bend or completely breaking off

 

[Beendare]

OP, I have a guess on why you don’t have a warm and fuzzy for your current setup.

My take.
At your 27” DL with a 65# bow, that 420-440g arrow is a real good compromise of good trajectory and performance.

I would spin check your arrows on a jig with BHs and you might find that many wobble…. Which kills accuracy. This is common with the 4mm arrow systems and the reason I stopped shooting 4mm- the components suck….or its very expensive and time consuming to build them perfect. . PITA.

This accurate arrow assembly is underestimated, it doesn’t take much and your groups open way up with BHs.

#1 check your arrows to make sure they are perfect then #2 BH tune your bow. My bet is it will feel like a brand new set up and be money at 50 and 60 yards.

Its true a 2 blade and or a little more arrow weight improves any arrows penetration ….your BH is fine in that setup.

Fletch is not a huge deal with a tuned bow. The advantage to 3 fletch is you can nok without looking, otherwise 3 is fine and really about the same.

If you do change arrows, go 5mm or 6mm, mill the end of them after cutting and before installing inserts. This helps with BH straightness. Standard insert is fine or you can go slightly heavier but don’t go crazy.

 

[Beendare]

Oh I do use two blade broadheads as part of my shooting system. They are easy to get razor sharp and touch up. Many times I can reuse them.

The two blade tapered design puts very little pressure on the edge, and thus, keeps the blade sharp through the entire animal. They don’t have to be super steel. I shoot a good cheaper version.

The only downside to these tapered two blades is you have to make sure your arrow is assembled perfectly so that you can get them straight. . Sloppy arrow assembly- you are screwed

 

[Beendare]

Well?

 

[jlw0142]

Well?

Thanks for the advice! I spun the arrows along with some 5mm and 6mm I had and they all spun well. So it appears that wasn’t the issue. Shot bareshaft and I did not love the outcome. The current plan is to start with getting it properly tuned. My bow shop has been cutting corners and I want it done just right. Then, I’ll go from there. Definitely moving to two blade and may switch arrows and going to try different point weights to see what I like. Going to try a 4-fletch just to see how I like it also. So now I’m just tinkering with it and waiting until I can get to someone who can help me tune it with a bow press.


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[Swampcruiser]

It wasn’t mentioned here much and i think it’s worth mentioning before you jump to 4mm shafts. Beendare hit on something with 5mm and 6mm. I’ve gone full circle after a bad experience with 4mm and high FOC once on a deer and then on a nice bull at close range. That is basically the phenomena of the fact that a smaller diameter shaft (4mm) with thicker walls takes longer to recover in flight than a larger diameter (6mm or .243) thinner walled shaft. You can google this or catch the guy from Firenock (Dorge) on a few podcasts. There is a bunch of physics behind it, but at about 15-20 yards the larger diameter shaft has recovered to straight flight where the thinner shaft is still influenced by archers paradox and recovering. Straight flight = maximum penetration. Now follow the trend of putting lots of weight up front and this is even more exaggerated. Think of it like a fish swimming and the arrow shaft going back and forth on more than one axis.
I understand the possible small benefits of less wind drift with 4mm but it’s not worth the headaches of outserts, halfouts and concentric concerns. I think I’ve found a happy medium in 6mm without the hassle of HIT inserts and collars or half outs that really have other baggage, but at least go 5mm (RIP, Axis) If you want smaller diameter. It worth looking at a 300 spine axis next to a 6mm Sonic and asking yourself if that outside diameter is really that different. It’s a big rabbit hole.