Gunwerks ML-Worth the $?

[JBivens]

Father in law is thinking about this, and after the initial look, I am too. Curious what opinions are out there, mainly from people who have shot it and or own it.

Would you buy it again?

What would you change?

What other MFT compare?

 

[tdhanses]

I don’t have one but no way would I spend $8k for a ML. A Cooper or Knight is as much as I would spend on one (I have a Knight Ultralight). You can easily get these to shoot to 500 with a scope. Just remember though a muzzleloader is going to really lose velocity and energy past 300 yards.

 

[ENCORE]

Best way and cheaper, period. Buy a Remington 700 Ultimate muzzleloader. Have any one of the builders install a .45cal Brux 1:20 twist barrel with the AGS Gen2 breech plug. 2 in 1 rifle, that will shoot both smokeless propellant and heavy charges of BH209. With the right bullet, you can get all the bullet energy you'll need at LONG range. Far beyond ANY production muzzleloader.
If you are required to use a .50cal, then its still the Remington Ultimate, replace the OEM breech plug with the ASG Gen RUM breech plug. You can shoot heavier charges than ANY production muzzleloader, shoot a 300gr bullet and have near 1,100 foot pounds of energy at 600yds. If full bore .50 is required, then Fury is making an excellent bullet for that.

View attachment 82960

 

[JBivens]

Thank you for the responses. Form 4473 is a non starter for my father in law, so the Rem 700 is out of the question. Many of the the customs don't actually build actions, so that's tough. The Knight and the TC seem to be very good rigs, but it seems like its a chevy truck versus a Porsche. Maybe thats just my perception, but everything else GW touches seems to work, time and time again without the customization that seems to be a killer in the backcountry.

 

[weaver]

If you want to shoot long range with a muzzleloader and have the dough then go for it. Coming from gunwerks I'm sure it's a quality product

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

 

[tdhanses]

Best way and cheaper, period. Buy a Remington 700 Ultimate muzzleloader. Have any one of the builders install a .45cal Brux 1:20 twist barrel with the AGS Gen2 breech plug. 2 in 1 rifle, that will shoot both smokeless propellant and heavy charges of BH209. With the right bullet, you can get all the bullet energy you'll need at LONG range. Far beyond ANY production muzzleloader.
If you are required to use a .50cal, then its still the Remington Ultimate, replace the OEM breech plug with the ASG Gen RUM breech plug. You can shoot heavier charges than ANY production muzzleloader, shoot a 300gr bullet and have near 1,100 foot pounds of energy at 600yds. If full bore .50 is required, then Fury is making an excellent bullet for that.

View attachment 82960

Yeah but this isn’t legal in most if not all western states to hunt with in muzzleloader season so then might as well build a rifle.

 

[bradb]

Which "most" states isn't it legal

 

[tdhanses]

Which "most" states isn't it legal

If I remember correctly the Remington ultimate would not qualify in CO, ID, WA and OR for ML season, not sure about MT and WY but if it shoot smokeless powder it shouldn’t be allowed in any ML season.

 

[bradb]

As he stated can shoot both smokeless and BP substitutes.
Mine is based off a 700 action and shoots blackthorn really good. Can shoot co legal bullets in a 50 if hunting elk, 45 is fine there for deer. A couple of the states listed I have no idea, but the guns give a lot of options to be legal in a variety of states.
As for what should be legal fo muzzle loader seasons, totally different discussions with lots of opinions.
When loaded with no restrictions I often just refer to mine as caseless single shot rifle loaded through muzz. I have ran 300 grain bullets at 3200 fps.
From memory bh 209 gave like 2400fps when used in nm for ibex

 

[ENCORE]

If I remember correctly the Remington ultimate would not qualify in CO, ID, WA and OR for ML season, not sure about MT and WY but if it shoot smokeless powder it shouldn’t be allowed in any ML season.

The Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader (RUM) ………. DOES NOT AND IS NOT.... capable of shooting smokeless propellant.

The only way a RUM is capable of shooting smokeless propellant, is to convert it with a smokeless propellant rated barrel and breech plug.

Converting them with just the ASG Gen2 breech plug allows shooting of up to 160grs VOLUME of BH209.

Converting them with just the ASG Gen2 breech plug, also allows up to 200grs VOLUME of any other black powder SUBSTITUTE.

Converting them with the ASG Gen2 breech plug and a smokeless rated .45cal barrel, allows them to be a 2 in 1 rifle. Capable of shooting both smokeless propellant...……. OR ………. BH209 and all other substitutes. So in states where smokeless propellant isn't legal, use BH209. As for the western states, I don't have a clue about their dedicated muzzleloader season ignition regulations. However, during the general seasons, the RUM using smokeless propellants should be legal.

Velocities of 2,400fps can be achieved shooting just BH209 and with 300gr bullets. With some high BC bullets, they have near 1,100 foot pounds energy at 600 yards.

 

[tdhanses]

As he stated can shoot both smokeless and BP substitutes.
Mine is based off a 700 action and shoots blackthorn really good. Can shoot co legal bullets in a 50 if hunting elk, 45 is fine there for deer. A couple of the states listed I have no idea, but the guns give a lot of options to be legal in a variety of states.
As for what should be legal fo muzzle loader seasons, totally different discussions with lots of opinions.
When loaded with no restrictions I often just refer to mine as caseless single shot rifle loaded through muzz. I have ran 300 grain bullets at 3200 fps.
From memory bh 209 gave like 2400fps when used in nm for ibex

The fact you can use smokeless could make it illegal, worth verifying. Most muzzleloaders will blowup if smokeless powder is used.

What charge of bh209 are you using to get 2400fps with a 300gr. With 100gr charge I’m getting 1843fps with a 290gr bullet out of my Knight.

 

[ENCORE]

The fact you can use smokeless could make it illegal, worth verifying. Most muzzleloaders will blowup if smokeless powder is used.

I highly doubt that is the case. In theory only, you could shoot smokeless propellant in any muzzleloader. If law enforcement was to check the rifle, the only thing they're going to look at propellant wise, is rather your shooting a legal propellant for the designated season/s. Certainly not rather a rifle will shoot both. As long as the rifle is loaded with the approved substitutes, you're good to go.
The idea that because its capable, falls into the same category as a man has a P, so therefore he's a rapist????

 

[bradb]

My charge is a fair bit more then yours, all I will say. I really just did mine as a switch barrel on one of my rifles. So screwed off the 6.5-284 barrel and screwed on the 45 brux with a fixed breech plug.


Suppose we could also debait how much bh 209 is really black powder sub also.

Real quick back to original post. I think it seems you're heart is wanting the gunwerks and iam sure it will perform great. I busy point out other options that will save some cash and do everything just as well

 

[ENCORE]

The fact you can use smokeless could make it illegal, worth verifying. Most muzzleloaders will blowup if smokeless powder is used.

What charge of bh209 are you using to get 2400fps with a 300gr. With 100gr charge I’m getting 1843fps with a 290gr bullet out of my Knight.

You're shooting a production muzzleloader, which is only capable of 120grs VOLUME of BH.

DO NOT ATTEMPT THE FOLLOWING CHARGE/S IN YOUR PRODUCTION MUZZLELOADER! READ AND FOLLOW YOUR RIFLES OWNER'S MANUAL!

I'm shooting an Ultimate BP Xpress, with the ASG Gen2 breech plug, a much stronger entire system, capable of 160grs VOLUME of BH, or 200grs VOLUME of other substitutes or black powder.

I'm sending a 300gr SST, with 160grs VOLUME of BH at 2395fps.

My intention is to start shooting the Parker Black Max at the same velocity, which with its much higher BC will shoot flatter and have more energy.

 

[JBivens]

Thank you all for the thoughts. Appreciated.

 

[stickbow Joe]

Good info encore.. I’m loving mine. The best smokeless guns make the best bh209 guns.

 

[ENCORE]

Good info encore.. I’m loving mine. The best smokeless guns make the best bh209 guns.

No way, even if I were made of money, would I spend $8K on a rifle when I can spend so much less and get more. Guys are taking the customs and shooting groups at 1,000yds that many can't come close to with a CF. Then they take the same rifle, load it with BH209 and shoot groups out to 500yds of less than MOA and hunt.
I'd rather have a quality built custom at a reasonable cost, get more rifle, then take a lot of money and put it into quality optics for it. Then maybe have two more built for that $8K.
Been down the route of "thinking"...…… when I should have listened in the first place.

 

[JBivens]

So.....what would you buy?

 

[ENCORE]

So.....what would you buy?

I'd look for a SS Remington 700 S/A .308 bolt, or purchase a Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader on sale and use its action and maybe even the stock. I'd send the rifle or action off to one of the many builders, such as: LR Customs, ASG, Bestill Creations, or Hanken's custom. My most likely choice would be the proven .45cal Brux 1:20 barrel, maybe the 1:18 twist, or if I so chose to go 40cal. a Rock Creek. Again, it would most likely be the .45cal Brux. The rifle would end up with the ASG Gen2 breech plug and modules, along with LR Customs T-Rex muzzle brake. I'd have my current 15moa mount, rings and Nightforce NXS system atop it. In my case, I'd use my current McMillan Game Warden stock. When the rifle was completed by any of the builders, it would be bedded, trued, top quality built, a 2 in1 rifle and as accurate as most can shoot a CF.

These rifles are not cheap, but they're no where near $8K, even with the top glass on top them. For $8k, I'd own two customs, one a .45 and the other a .401 and still have enough money for the best glass available to top them with. These rifles are ….. capable …. of shooting either smokeless propellant, or BH209. BH209 velocities of 2,400fps using 300gr bullets.

Here's an example of the long range accuracy of a custom built rifle, which happens to be a .40 shooting smokeless:


If my hunting required at minimum a .50cal bullet, then the choice would be either the RUM or BP Xpress. I'd have the ASG Gen2 breech plug installed and shoot BH209 and Fury bullets at over 2,300fps.

Even the Ultimate Firearms Inc., BP Xpress, which is what I currently shoot. Again, install the ASG Gen2 breech plug and shoot BH209 and 300gr bullets in a sabot, at 2,400fps. A very accurate rifle, which I've shot 5 shot groups at 400yds of 1.5" and a 3 shot group at 500yds, witness and signed, of 1.873". But that's me.



Not attempting to say in any way that the Gunwerk rifle isn't a good rifle and/or capable of long range. What I am saying is, for me, I wouldn't go that route and would go with one of the custom builders.

 

[orionthehunter1]

if you want to hunt Colorado you can't use a scope so what good is the gunwerks without a scope? What states is he wanting to hunt.