Grizzly bear attack in Montana

[String&stick]

To me, this reads like a classic case of a bear protecting a kill. It ran over to a possible threat, knocked the threat down and injured it with a bite, and walked away.

We don't have more information, but I'm guessing if the person immediately bounced up and started screaming, they would have gotten another round of mailing. In my mind the spray was useless, but we will never know for sure what "could" have happened without it. At some point the effectiveness of a firearm has to be taken into account though, as numerous attacks have ended in a dead bear and a live person. Some injured, some in injured.

 

[AZ8]

FWIW. Controlled distance test.

 

[MuleyFever]

Also zero evidence a hand gun would have resulted in a better outcome. I get it. This site is full of hunters and those that daydream of their heroic actions in the face of danger. To me it’s reasonable to think the bear bit and retreated due to the discomfort of the spray. Obviously not proven though. What if the person did have a gun but didn’t get a good hit? We can speculate on that outcome too. In fact most people are probably better served with spray over a gun considering they would not be practiced/proficient with a gun. Although spray that doesn’t work or a gun one doesn’t know how to use will probably yield the same outcome. I’m pretty sure we could revisit a few instances of a person with a gun killed by a bear.

 

[dtrkyman]

I have zero experience in this situation, but I would carry a firearm and would not wait until 10 yards to "deploy" it! At least bullets have the potential to stop and kill, spray not so much!

I have seen a few videos of false charges and guys firing warning shots, eff that , if I even thought a bear may come after me it is getting shot!

 

[Opah]

I have on a couple of occasions driven bears away from camp and me in a hunting location. It is not shooting at the bear and it is not letting that bear get close to you, the report of a gun of most calibers is sufficient to drive away the bear. unless you have been blowing a distressed rabbit call all morning and then your $&%*(

 

[Billy Goat]

I think if this individual had a firearm and survived in this manor people would be claiming victory. Even with no blood found, it was still an effective deterrent.

I think for the right person a pistol is the best way to go, I suspect that right person is a pretty small minority. Might be less than 2% of those that are already carrying in bear country. Shotgun is definitely the best firearm to be carrying for the majority of people, but it of course has its own drawbacks.

I'm just glad we have options.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

I have on a couple of occasions driven bears away from camp and me in a hunting location. It is not shooting at the bear and it is not letting that bear get close to you, the report of a gun of most calibers is sufficient to drive away the bear. unless you have been blowing a distressed rabbit call all morning and then your $&%*(

I also have had personal experience in this regard. It was only a Black Bear, who are not as aggressive, but the sound of my handgun sent that girl running like crazy. Glad I didn't have to kill the bear, only a warning shot.

It is just my guess but the sound of a spray bottle under pressure is not going to deter a bear, charging or otherwise.

 

[Marbles]

I think if this individual had a firearm and survived in this manor people would be claiming victory. Even with no blood found, it was still an effective deterrent.

I think for the right person a pistol is the best way to go, I suspect that right person is a pretty small minority. Might be less than 2% of those that are already carrying in bear country. Shotgun is definitely the best firearm to be carrying for the majority of people, but it of course has its own drawbacks.

Curious, why a shotgun? I ask because I hear this a lot. A shotgun will not help with poor shot placement. Even if loading buckshot, spread is not large enough to allow for sloppy shooting, and to kill a bear you would really want slugs anyway. I will agree that a long gun is a better choice than a pistol, and that a non-magnified sight system would be preferable to magnification.

 

[Billy Goat]

Curious, why a shotgun? I ask because I hear this a lot. A shotgun will not help with poor shot placement. Even if loading buckshot, spread is not large enough to allow for sloppy shooting, and to kill a bear you would really want slugs anyway. I will agree that a long gun is a better choice than a pistol, and that a non-magnified sight system would be preferable to magnification.

A miss is a miss, no doubt about that. But a shotgun is a lot easier to shoot accurately than a pistol. Under 10 yards you would likely be hard pressed to tell the difference in a slug and buckshot. Load every other. Buckshot followed by slug then buckshot til you run out of space.

 

[OXN939]

I get it. This site is full of hunters and those that daydream of their heroic actions in the face of danger. To me it’s reasonable to think the bear bit and retreated due to the discomfort of the spray.

This for days. I wonder how many of the guys fantasizing about killing this bear have ever been pepper sprayed. It sucks major donkey balls, even in trace amounts, and the sensation of discomfort takes a few seconds to fully kick in. Watch some videos of people getting hit- they generally keep doing what they're doing for a few seconds, and then retreat to try to get it off and out of their eyes... which sounds exactly what happened with this bear.

 

[Squamch]

This for days. I wonder how many of the guys fantasizing about killing this bear have ever been pepper sprayed. It sucks major donkey balls, even in trace amounts, and the sensation of discomfort takes a few seconds to fully kick in. Watch some videos of people getting hit- they generally keep doing what they're doing for a few seconds, and then retreat to try to get it off and out of their eyes... which sounds exactly what happened with this bear.

Unlike a large caliber bullet, which tends to have an effect pretty much immediately.

 

[grfox92]

I would prepare myself to Juke as I was spraying and attempt to side step the bear. Too many of these attack stories end with the bears momentum just barreling them through the spray.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[S.Clancy]

Is deploying the spray at 10 yds the norm? Seems a bear going full steam would run through that distance in a few bounds, before even feeling the effects of the spray. Glad to hear the injuries were minimal.

Having sprayed multiple cans practicing, I'd say 10 yards is the upper end of effective range.

 

[Marbles]

I think penetration would be severely lacking at any range with buckshot. Even 000 is basically a very anemic 9 mm with poor sectional density and a bad shape for penetration.

000 buckshot
9.1 mm, 68 gr
12 gauge 3 inch shell
10 pellets
1240 FPS
12 gauge 2 3/4 inch shell
8 pellets
1325 gr

9 mm Buffalo Bore
147 gr +P hardcast 1100 FPS
124 gr +P+ Penetrator 1300 FPS

Doubletap Defense
77 gr 1625 FPS

I would rather a rifle (the only reason for a handgun would be ease of keeping it on ones person), but if I carried a shotgun for bear it would be loaded with Brenneke slugs.

Bear spray and guns both have advantages and disadvantages. Sprayed bears have been known to return and attack again. Conversely, a wounded bear will probably just go ahead and kill you or present a serious danger to anyone else in the area.

Having been pepper sprayed (about 5 seconds in the face from 2 feet away), I would never trust the stuff to stop a lethal threat as it is just an annoyance that makes it harder to see. I still see uses for bear spray though and at times carry it.

 

[S.Clancy]

Another example of bear spray not working. Besides, who here has practiced with bear spray to determine its effectiveness? I usually shoot about 10,000 rounds and have a pretty good idea of how my bullets are going to act in flight. I gotta say, I feel better with my handgun in the backcountry.

However, I wonder what the regulations are for Montana FWS Seasonal employees carrying self defense gear. Maybe they are not allowed to carry a firearm?

Don't know about FWS, but USGS only Interagency Bear Team was allowed to carry firearms when I worked there.

 

[Will_m]

I would prepare myself to Juke as I was spraying and attempt to side step the bear. Too many of these attack stories end with the bears momentum just barreling them through the spray.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Seems reasonable in concept, but man, if somebody told me they juked out a grizzly bear I would probably have a hard time not laughing.

 

[S.Clancy]

Also zero evidence a hand gun would have resulted in a better outcome. I get it. This site is full of hunters and those that daydream of their heroic actions in the face of danger. To me it’s reasonable to think the bear bit and retreated due to the discomfort of the spray. Obviously not proven though. What if the person did have a gun but didn’t get a good hit? We can speculate on that outcome too. In fact most people are probably better served with spray over a gun considering they would not be practiced/proficient with a gun. Although spray that doesn’t work or a gun one doesn’t know how to use will probably yield the same outcome. I’m pretty sure we could revisit a few instances of a person with a gun killed by a bear.

People think they are WAYYYY better than they actually are with pistols, especially large caliber ones. I have a buddy that carries a .460 S&W for bear pro...he might as well carry a rock with how much he practices

 

[Marbles]

People think they are WAYYYY better than they actually are with pistols, especially large caliber ones. I have a buddy that carries a .460 S&W for bear pro...he might as well carry a rock with how much he practices

True, but Ergonomic rocks are better....

 

[wind gypsy]

Unlike a large caliber bullet, which tends to have an effect pretty much immediately.

I very much doubt anything but a head/spine shot from a pistol is going to absolutely keep a bear on a charge inside 10 yards from getting at least 1 bite in if it so desires..

I didn't read this story as a bear spray advocacy over firearms piece at all. I carry firearms over spray but think folks are grasping at straws to try to make this something it isn't..

 

[Marbles]

I very much doubt anything but a head/spine shot from a pistol is going to absolutely keep a bear on a charge inside 10 yards from getting at least 1 bite in if it so desires..

I didn't read this story as a bear spray advocacy over firearms piece at all. I carry firearms over spray but think folks are grasping at straws to try to make this something it isn't..

Just for fun. There is some evidence that if a large enough high velocity bullet strikes the chest cavity at the peak of ventricular systole the pressure wave can be transmitted to the brain causing massive destruction of brain tissue. So, a chest shot could provide an instant stop, but not through a method that is under the control of the shooter. As such, a central nervous system or high spinal cord hit would be the only reliable method.

Sorry, I could not help myself. I also agree with you regarding the original story.