Grizzly bear attack in Montana

[Beendare]

I would bet dollars to donuts that fully 1/2 of the guys packing spray have never unleashed a can of the stuff...what a time to learn...on a charging bear.

 

[MJB]

10 yards it gets the pistol not hot sauce

SSS

 

[Billy Goat]

I think penetration would be severely lacking at any range with buckshot. Even 000 is basically a very anemic 9 mm with poor sectional density and a bad shape for penetration.

000 buckshot
9.1 mm, 68 gr
12 gauge 3 inch shell
10 pellets
1240 FPS
12 gauge 2 3/4 inch shell
8 pellets
1325 gr

9 mm Buffalo Bore
147 gr +P hardcast 1100 FPS
124 gr +P+ Penetrator 1300 FPS

Doubletap Defense
77 gr 1625 FPS

I would rather a rifle (the only reason for a handgun would be ease of keeping it on ones person), but if I carried a shotgun for bear it would be loaded with Brenneke slugs.

Bear spray and guns both have advantages and disadvantages. Sprayed bears have been known to return and attack again. Conversely, a wounded bear will probably just go ahead and kill you or present a serious danger to anyone else in the area.

Having been pepper sprayed (about 5 seconds in the face from 2 feet away), I would never trust the stuff to stop a lethal threat as it is just an annoyance that makes it harder to see. I still see uses for bear spray though and at times carry it.

I'm not saying buckshot is a savior, but try shoot some at close range. It's going to pattern about an inch a yard. So 10" at 10 yards. Pack the punch of 9 rounds of 9mm impacting at one time (I'd opt for OO instead of the OOO). Slug is going to give better penetration for sure, but again the point of the shotgun is it's something that is quicker to aim, easier to hold on target, and is generally more accurate.

Lots of options. I guess I'm just a fan of shotguns for close range shooting.

 

[wind gypsy]

How do you tell a man eating grizzly from their droppings ?
The strong odor of Pepper !
I believe one of the super loud aerosol can horns would work better than Pepper spray.
a hand gun only good for the Bang unless it is of large enough caliber to anchor the bear at 15 / 20 yards.
What I do know is I never go into the forest, woods, desert, swap lake or ocean without protection

"enough caliber to anchor the bear"? Whats that, 20mm? Because you can shoot a whitetail through the lungs with a 375 ruger and there is a good chance it'll still run more than 15/20 yards.

 

[Drummond]

I used a rushing USFS silhouette simulation one time and they said to spray low, super easy just to send it right over their head.

 

[Marbles]

If you don't want to be treated like a criminal, don't report a justified bear shooting to F&G. Same goes for wolves in certain areas. SSS, and carry on about your day

Good way to end up in jail. The best thing is avoid the situation in the first place, not advocate violating the law. Wind Gypsy got it right.

So if you don't want to be treated like a criminal, you should commit crimes. Gotcha

Then there is the story of a grizzly bear that was hit in the skull with a large caliber handgun bullet. The bullet penetrated the skin but not the skull and stayed under the skin as it followed the skull up over the head and lodged under the skin behind the head. in the neck area. The wound infected and swelled, causing a large abscess.

The bear roamed around the area for some time, but I am not sure if had to be put down or not.

Read the story of Old Groaner. Some of the versions are a little embellished, but it is instructive on why good bullets are needed.

I believe one of the super loud aerosol can horns would work better than Pepper spray.
a hand gun only good for the Bang unless it is of large enough caliber to anchor the bear at 15 / 20 yards.

There are far too many cases of spray working for there to be any validity in this. On large caliber (while not what I would recommend) bears have been dropped with 9 mm using hardcast bullets. Phil Shoemaker did so about 5 years ago. https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

 

[Marbles]

Y

I'm not saying buckshot is a savior, but try shoot some at close range. It's going to pattern about an inch a yard. So 10" at 10 yards. Pack the punch of 9 rounds of 9mm impacting at one time (I'd opt for OO instead of the OOO). Slug is going to give better penetration for sure, but again the point of the shotgun is it's something that is quicker to aim, easier to hold on target, and is generally more accurate.

Lots of options. I guess I'm just a fan of shotguns for close range shooting.

I know what bird shot at close range does to a person. Horrendous looking wound without enough depth to reach vitals. Literally just a flesh wound.

 

[Opah]

"enough caliber to anchor the bear"? Whats that, 20mm? Because you can shoot a whitetail through the lungs with a 375 ruger and there is a good chance it'll still run more than 15/20 yards.
Anchor the Bear:
If charging on all four take out one of the front shoulders, the impact of the ground well jack him up but mainly gives you time for a Kill shot.
If standing up take out the hip, once again providing time for a kill shot
The caliber has to be able to penetrate and shatter bone

 

[Bighorse]

Do you think the outcome would have been Different if they had used a pistol or other weapon? What do you think the statistical likelihood is of hitting the bear “in the dome” at adrenaline is coursing through you with an apex predator bearing down on you?

The person didn’t get tackled and get bit across the face. So I’d say the bear spray worked. He/she is alive

**** if I know but I'm sending it!!!!!!

Statistics be damned. Your not thinking about that when you defending your life. Instincts take over and I'm the type that gets steady and ready fast probably because I've actually practiced in real bear country.

 

[Scrappy]

Anybody know what the protocol is as far as the aftermath of shooting a grizzly? I am assuming there would be an investigation done to make sure you did it under threat of life/limb, etc., and am assuming your hunt would be over at that point. But would you be able to travel back home in a day or 2? How would you prove the grizzly was charging, and how far away he was when you shot him?

I've heard some stories of the process being pretty grueling for the person who had to defend themselves, but wondering if anybody knows of someone who had to go through it.

It's simple, defend yourself and walk away. You are the only one that could make it a difficult situation.

 

[S.Clancy]

It's simple, defend yourself and walk away. You are the only one that could make it a difficult situation.

Are you kidding me? I don't understand the widespread BS about SSS. In my mind, it goes against everything we should stand for as hunters.

 

[RamDreamer]

Are you kidding me? I don't understand the widespread BS about SSS. In my mind, it goes against everything we should stand for as hunters.

I completely agree with you.

 

[Will_m]

Has anybody here had to do the paperwork on a self-defense kill? I tried looking at some law on what constitutes self-defense, imminent threat, etc. or whatever the magic language of the ESA (any whatever state counterpart says).

Seems like it gives a lot of prosecutorial discretion, which itself seems like a very bad thing. I mean, if I say the bear was behaving aggressively and I kill it with a handgun, how can I be prosecuted? The bear can't tell a story and assuming an autopsy doesn't reveal something strange, the whole "don't kill a bear unless you have claw marks" is both inherently stupid and an objective disregard for human life.

Sounds like a potential lawsuit against an outfitter, game warden, etc. Individual tells hunter not to shoot bear unless he has claw marks or "it will be very bad." Hunter gets in a bad situation, doesn't react appropriately under this advice. Wrongful death lawsuit on deck.

 

[Scrappy]

Are you kidding me? I don't understand the widespread BS about SSS. In my mind, it goes against everything we should stand for as hunters.

Not trying to argue, but defending yourself is not against the law.

 

[S.Clancy]

Not trying to argue, but defending yourself is not against the law.

You're right. Still doesn't justify SSS. Reporting it is necessary not only legally but biologically.

 

[Laramie]

I'm in no way promoting any conduct after a person defends himself but rather relaying what is commonly known out west. Many problem bears through the years have met their demise without costing taxpayers thousands on an investigation that does everything to prove the defender guilty. Talk to anyone who has gone through it- unless you have injuries, you are assumed guilty until you and the forensics prove you are innocent. The flip side, if you don't report and it is discovered you were responsible for a grizzly death, you will most certainly appear guilty. I'm thankful I have never been in that position and choose to hunt in areas where they aren't a problem.

 

[browning2480]

Ask the Ranchers what they are doing SSS isn't for everyone, so feel free to report what you feel is necessary.

 

[Will_m]

I'm in no way promoting any conduct after a person defends himself but rather relaying what is commonly known out west. Many problem bears through the years have met their demise without costing taxpayers thousands on an investigation that does everything to prove the defender guilty. Talk to anyone who has gone through it- unless you have injuries, you are assumed guilty until you and the forensics prove you are innocent. The flip side, if you don't report and it is discovered you were responsible for a grizzly death, you will most certainly appear guilty. I'm thankful I have never been in that position and choose to hunt in areas where they aren't a problem.

I agree with this, except that I'm pretty sure if you fail to report it, you are no longer under the exception to the do not kill law.

In other words, it doesn't matter if it was a legit self-defense kill. You will be prosecuted just the same as if you had killed it for sport.

So they make you out yourself and then, like you said, exhaust all options to hold you criminally responsible.

 

[jmez]

Has anybody here had to do the paperwork on a self-defense kill? I tried looking at some law on what constitutes self-defense, imminent threat, etc. or whatever the magic language of the ESA (any whatever state counterpart says).

Seems like it gives a lot of prosecutorial discretion, which itself seems like a very bad thing. I mean, if I say the bear was behaving aggressively and I kill it with a handgun, how can I be prosecuted? The bear can't tell a story and assuming an autopsy doesn't reveal something strange, the whole "don't kill a bear unless you have claw marks" is both inherently stupid and an objective disregard for human life.

Sounds like a potential lawsuit against an outfitter, game warden, etc. Individual tells hunter not to shoot bear unless he has claw marks or "it will be very bad." Hunter gets in a bad situation, doesn't react appropriately under this advice. Wrongful death lawsuit on deck.

I used to hunt Terrace mountain area in WY with a federal prosecuting attorney. We talked about it quite a bit. He said unless the scene was obvious that you just shot a bear they can't prove that you did not feel you were in imminent danger.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[Opah]

The bear was hunted down and killed any way, so what does it matter why the bear attached or who pulled the trigger, SOP Kill the Bear that attacks people, period end of report