GRITTY - FILM PERMITS - YOUR THOUGHTS?

[Dos Perros]

I think the question is: was Brian’s skirting of the law an act of civil disobedience? I myself don’t think so since he tried to get away with it.

If he were bucking the system he wouldn’t have tried to get away with it; he would have made his act known and sought the attention of authorities and lawmakers.

He broke the law. He got caught. No it’s all boo hoo and complain about the law. It’s this nuance that sways opinions. Had he engaged in civil disobedience he might have had a lot of others behind him.

 

[Glory]

I am out of my time to argue on the internet this morning. I will try to listen to the podcast if I can find it.

 

[ttucci16]

He tried to play by the rules and was told he doesnt need to get a permit, then they try to drop the hammer on him. The guy who wrote him the citation said he doesnt agree with the person he reached out too two years prior. IMO it seems like there is a misunderstanding of the process and requirements. Is ignorance a valid excuse...no, but i feel for him.

I dont think Brian sponsor pimps himself any more than other shows. Randy pitches kennetrek, gerber, nosler, rmef just as much as Brian does SG, heathers choice, seek, and mtn ops. The dude self produces and films his own hunts and does a damn good job. Hats off to anyone making a living off of hunting. People need to chill with casting judgement and wanting to see people fall on their face.

 

[Will_m]

Spots might be a little less crowded if these people "doing it for a living" would do a little more falling on their face.

 

[Dos Perros]

Concept: submit FOIA requests for all the film permits granted, correlate permits to hunts/videos on YouTube and their film locations, publish website to really help people enjoy our public lands.

 

[ttucci16]

Spots might be a little less crowded if these people "doing it for a living" would do a little more falling on their face.

I think that's a terrible way to look at life. I would never want to have success due to someones failure. If your spot is crowded, find somewhere else. Brian is no more responsible for places being popular than all these companies making hunting more accessible and easier to get into. The more a group of people are using a resource, the more power they have in influencing the future of the resource. You're legit on a forum based on people getting into and talking about hunting...LMFAO. Honest question, Would you rather all hunting now be by permit to restrict access to your spots? Would you be ok with not drawing the permit for your spot if that's what you want?

 

[Deadfall]

Rules are rules. Everyne else profiting off public land has to pay fees. Loggers, oil, ranchers, outfitters. Why not filmers

 

[Deadfall]

I'm a big fan of Brians films. He breaks down the issue pretty well in his podcast. I have to agree with Brian when he points out that the law is not enforced evenly across the board. They typically go after the guys who have really good content (His words, not mine). We have an entire outdoor industry and to think that a permit should be required in order to film and make money off of the permit seems a little overbearing and unamerican to me. I hope to see more of his films soon.

Maybe loggers, oil men, outfitters and ranchers should stop paying fees for using public land.

 

[Deadfall]

I'll take a stab at it......From what i can find, it costs an outfitter 3% of their adjusted gross revenue to use national forest land. So let's say an average guided elk hunt is 5k in Idaho. The outfitter would owe $150 per paid hunt he takes out. I would say that is small change in the grand scheme of costs. Brian would have to pay a $10 fee per day he uses public land. It seems like most of his hunts are 10 days, and I'm going to guess that he averages 80 days of hunting/filming a year for a total of $800. Still not a huge sum of money in the grand scheme of things. The only issue i see is that the process/way the law is written and enforced is absolute garbage. I don't think Brian is "blowing out public land". He rarely even says what state he is hunting. Does he market products....yes....but in my opinion does it subtly. If you're upset about brian, born and raised, and hushin "exploiting" public land, hop on over to patagonia and rei and see what their business model is based around. Their whole business model is getting out and hiking ON PUBLIC LAND. Hunters have so little impact on public land and the destruction to habitat compared to your everyday thru-hiker. It seems like your issue lies in more hunters getting into "backcountry" hunting. Look at the amount of views Brians videos get....then go look at Darwin on the trail. Brian has 6 million views vs darwin on the trail having 33 million. You think darwin on the trail is pulling permits in order to hike the whole PCT?( It averages 150 days to do, so $1500 to film and monetize it)....i highly doubt it. Do you think the USFS is going after all these "thru-hikers" and outdoor companies who film on public land....again, I doubt it. Should he have gotten the permits....yeah sure.....is it dumb that someone has to pay in order to self film a hunt....yes. Again, it seems like your issue is not the permits, but these guys getting more and more people out into the backcountry.

Outfitters also have to buy days for everyone in camp. Also have to pay grazing fees. There are more beyond that depending on part of country

 

[303TrophyHusband]

Just an FYI, those charges against him were dropped, he had email correspondence between himself and someone with the Forest Service in Idaho where they told him he did not need a permit to film because the film permits that they give out are for Hollywood production type films. This is fact, he wasn't trying to "get away" with anything, as far as he knew everything was above board. The odd part was, they said ok we told you it was ok but it wasn't sooo, we drop the charges but you also have to take down all your films that were filmed without a permit even though you were operating with the understanding that it was all legal. Hate on him for whatever else you want but this one falls on the Forest Service.

Don't quote me on it but I'm pretty sure Randy has gone the rounds with the feds over film permits past and present, even paying fines, he just hasn't been very vocal about it...yet. Same with Corey Jacobsen and others as well. There just hasn't been much of a ruckus made...yet.

 

[ttucci16]

Rules are rules. Everyne else profiting off public land has to pay fees. Loggers, oil, ranchers, outfitters. Why not filmers

I agree rules are rules. I think you're making a false comparison with loggers, oil, and ranchers. All of those businesses are extracting a resource that belongs to everyone and needs to be regulated due to some people possibly getting greedy with OUR resources. Outfitters should probably be regulated due to "safety" and possibly over using a resource. Filming i feel like isnt is in the same category when it comes to less than 5 people being out there. I can 100 percent agree with a permit if you have a big production company out there using up a resource and disturbing the publics flow to an area. Should you have to get a permit to take a picture of a once in a lifetime hunt in which you kill a world record and then receive any monetary reward? It's a slippery slope and seems overzealous. I think as long as someone isnt creating a problem or adversely affecting a resource, then have at it and do it responsibly.

 

[Will_m]

I think that's a terrible way to look at life. I would never want to have success due to someones failure. If your spot is crowded, find somewhere else. Brian is no more responsible for places being popular than all these companies making hunting more accessible and easier to get into. The more a group of people are using a resource, the more power they have in influencing the future of the resource. You're legit on a forum based on people getting into and talking about hunting...LMFAO. Honest question, Would you rather all hunting now be by permit to restrict access to your spots? Would you be ok with not drawing the permit for your spot if that's what you want?

To be fair, one person's success is almost always related to another's failure, be it directly or indirectly.

I hunt a lot of permit only areas as do many others.

The more people using a resource, the less useful that resource becomes.

 

[dreamingbig]

You really need to listen to the entire podcast to understand the issue. I don’t defend Brian but he did jump through hoops and research which is why all fines were dropped.

Changes are coming. Right now a permit is not needed in a national park. Permanent injunction by the court.

My gut says it is used as precedent for national forest soon.

End result - change to the system to catch up with current technology and use.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stumpknocker]

No opinion on this particular issue but I was associated with a show filmed on a National Wild and Scenic River in a NF. Production company asked if we (a bunch of fish biologists..) had a permit and we thought they meant fish collection permit. But- No they meant this permit y'all are talking about.

Long story short we got some scary calls from the feds but in the end the production company was only fined $1000 bucks. Show still aired.

 

[grfox92]

Just an FYI, those charges against him were dropped, he had email correspondence between himself and someone with the Forest Service in Idaho where they told him he did not need a permit to film because the film permits that they give out are for Hollywood production type films. This is fact, he wasn't trying to "get away" with anything, as far as he knew everything was above board. The odd part was, they said ok we told you it was ok but it wasn't sooo, we drop the charges but you also have to take down all your films that were filmed without a permit even though you were operating with the understanding that it was all legal. Hate on him for whatever else you want but this one falls on the Forest Service.

Don't quote me on it but I'm pretty sure Randy has gone the rounds with the feds over film permits past and present, even paying fines, he just hasn't been very vocal about it...yet. Same with Corey Jacobsen and others as well. There just hasn't been much of a ruckus made...yet.

Well IF that's true, then some people in this thread should feel pretty silly right now.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[archp625]

Well IF that's true, then some people in this thread should feel pretty silly right now.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Not me. They told him years before that. He should have been checking every year. Plus he knows a ton of other people in the industry that were going through the permit processes. He knew. Weather he will admit to it, he knew deep down inside. To me he started to believe the lie. Now wants to play the innocent by ignorance deal.

 

[303TrophyHusband]

Well IF that's true, then some people in this thread should feel pretty silly right now.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

It's absolutely true, like I said, hate him for whatever but in this instance, the charges were DROPPED because of the evidence presented in the form of email correspondence

 

[archp625]

It's absolutely true, like I said, hate him for whatever but in this instance, the charges were DROPPED because of the evidence presented in the form of email correspondence

Yes you are correct, they did get dropped. My opinion still stands on him acting like he didn't know. Sounds like he dodge a bullet on the fine.

 

[303TrophyHusband]

Yes you are correct, they did get dropped. My opinion still stands on him acting like he didn't know. Sounds like he dodge a bullet on the fine.

And I respect your opinion, but the FACT remains, he had email correspondence with someone in the USFS office that gives out film permits and stated that he didn't need a permit to do what he was doing, he LITERALLY didn't know until they came knocking on his door. No acting, he didn't know. Dodge a bullet? Absolutely, I'm just glad the feds admitted they were wrong

And just FYI, there's a ton of YouTube hunting/fishing/rafting/biking/take your pic outdoors shows that are currently trying to cover their butts at the moment because they had no idea they needed permits either.

 

[archp625]

And I respect your opinion, but the FACT remains, he had email correspondence with someone in the USFS office that gives out film permits and stated that he didn't need a permit to do what he was doing, he LITERALLY didn't know until they came knocking on his door. No acting, he didn't know. Dodge a bullet? Absolutely, I'm just glad the feds admitted they were wrong

And just FYI, there's a ton of YouTube hunting/fishing/rafting/biking/take your pic outdoors shows that are currently trying to cover their butts at the moment because they had no idea they needed permits either.

I respect your opinion as well. Your second paragraph is no joke. I'm sure there are a ton of people that didn't know.

I am really glad that most people on this forum can have good, healthy, conversations without name calling. I believe that you and I can be added to that list.