Goat rifle

[LightFoot]

What would your goat bullet choice be if you were going to use a 6.5 creedmoor?

130 Terminal Ascent … that’s what I’d like to try.


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[JP100]

What would your goat bullet choice be if you were going to use a 6.5 creedmoor?

Honestly anything but a berger haha.

Currently using seirra game changers and ELDX in our Tahr rifles(similar body shape/size to goats).

I wouldn't be afraid to go to a Barnes, or a partition or something tough.

The only reason i dont use barnes or partitions is the cost, as i am often shooting lots of other smaller game(feral goats) with the same rifle.

Goats are not super tough or big, but are a well built animal, with thick shoulders. Bergers will work on perfect shots, but on quarting shots they lack penetration to blow right through game.

I have this opinion on bergers for all game, and have used them and seen alot of game shot with them.

They work really well....until they dont....haha

 

[JP100]

130 Terminal Ascent … that’s what I’d like to try.


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They look like a great option!

 

[S-3 ranch]

What would your goat bullet choice be if you were going to use a 6.5 creedmoor?

Anything that shoots well out of the gun
i shoot the crude out of aoudad with a .270win 130gr Norma oryx
the sierra GC 140 is good to
a 6.5cm with 129gr hornday American whitetail will do
why not a Berger?
are Mt Goats tougher than aoudad and sheep?
I know I would stick with a lead core with a slow caliber

 

[thinhorn_AK]

130 Terminal Ascent … that’s what I’d like to try.


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I’ve been shooting lots of 130g accubonds and 124g hammer hunters. I’ve just started playing with the 140g and ELSMs too.

 

[Mike D Texas]

130 Terminal Ascent … that’s what I’d like to try.


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This. I wish these were more available. It’s a great bullet design and was easy to tune in my 6.5 SAUM.

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[JP100]

Anything that shoots well out of the gun
i shoot the crude out of aoudad with a .270win 130gr Norma oryx
the sierra GC 140 is good to
a 6.5cm with 129gr hornday American whitetail will do
why not a Berger?
are Mt Goats tougher than aoudad and sheep?
I know I would stick with a lead core with a slow caliber
View attachment 563301

Those bullets are not at all like a berger. Bergers are designed to explode, as per their own website they are designed to penetrate 2-3" then expand rapidly.......despite what ya missus might tell you, 2 or 3 inches isnt much.......

on good shot placements(ie standard broad side) they work well, but on hard quartering shots they lack the penetration to reach the vitals. For example we shot a stag last week, 4 times with 180gn Bergers from a .28 Nosler. the problem was the shot angles, the angle of the shot prevented the bullets from really getting into the vitals(because the bergers could not penetrate enough). did the stag die? yea of course, would another bullet have worked better? yea of course.
A norma Oryx for example is the complete opposite of a berger, despite them both being 'lead core'

With game like MT goats, wounded animals can be unrecoverable, regardless if you 'find' them or not. If you are shooting bergers, you can limit yourself to 'perfect' shots and never have a problem, or you can shoot a more versatile bullet and have far more opportunities on shot placement

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

The new G9 Defense 113 Long Range Hunters would be my choice if I was going to use my 6.5 for Mt Goats. High B.C. for less wind drift in mountain conditions. High penetration and the two part brass projectile is designed to fragment and cause a massive wound channel. They’re a new Rokslide sponsor as well.

 

[wyogoat]

I’ve had great long range success with the 143 gr ELDX on a measured 667 yard shot on a Texas Aoudad but switched to the 140 Berger VLD Hunter bullet for an upcoming Montana sheep hunt.
Don’t leave the 6.5 CR despite all the haters.

 

[Neoinarien]

Great thread thanks (lurker)

 

[ianpadron]

Those bullets are not at all like a berger. Bergers are designed to explode, as per their own website they are designed to penetrate 2-3" then expand rapidly.......despite what ya missus might tell you, 2 or 3 inches isnt much.......

on good shot placements(ie standard broad side) they work well, but on hard quartering shots they lack the penetration to reach the vitals. For example we shot a stag last week, 4 times with 180gn Bergers from a .28 Nosler. the problem was the shot angles, the angle of the shot prevented the bullets from really getting into the vitals(because the bergers could not penetrate enough). did the stag die? yea of course, would another bullet have worked better? yea of course.
A norma Oryx for example is the complete opposite of a berger, despite them both being 'lead core'

With game like MT goats, wounded animals can be unrecoverable, regardless if you 'find' them or not. If you are shooting bergers, you can limit yourself to 'perfect' shots and never have a problem, or you can shoot a more versatile bullet and have far more opportunities on shot placement

What velocity were those 180s going when they hit the target critter?

I've found Bergers to shine below 2800 FPS impact velocity or so. Above that and things can/will get messy. Still results in dead critters, but lots of meat wasted.

I've been waiting for the 136 TAs to come back into production for my WSM for that exact reason. Have killed 2 bucks inside 25 yards with a 140 Classic Hunter going about 3300 FPS and they basically disintegrate. Past 200 yards or so the performance has been much more desirable, but I can't guarantee every animal I see will be outside 200 yds haha!

 

[JP100]

What velocity were those 180s going when they hit the target critter?

I've found Bergers to shine below 2800 FPS impact velocity or so. Above that and things can/will get messy. Still results in dead critters, but lots of meat wasted.

I've been waiting for the 136 TAs to come back into production for my WSM for that exact reason. Have killed 2 bucks inside 25 yards with a 140 Classic Hunter going about 3300 FPS and they basically disintegrate. Past 200 yards or so the performance has been much more desirable, but I can't guarantee every animal I see will be outside 200 yds haha!

The stag above was shot at 350ish.

So impact velocity would have been around 2500fps.

They work exactly as berger designed them, a few inches of penetration and then rapid expansion. A couple of inches of penetration isnt enough...

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[Formidilosus]

A couple of inches of penetration isnt enough...

Isn’t enough for what? A mountain goat? They are one of the thinnest NA animals- 4 inches from any direction in the front half and you are in the chest cavity.


Much like elk, why do people try to turn these animals in mythic bullet proof creatures? They are killed on demand with pointed sticks.

 

[JP100]

Isn’t enough for what? A mountain goat? They are one of the thinnest NA animals- 4 inches from any direction in the front half and you are in the chest cavity.


Much like elk, why do people try to turn these animals in mythic bullet proof creatures? They are killed on demand with pointed sticks.

As per my original post......

On good broadside shots its fine.

On quartering shots, they are less than desirable. 4 inches aint shit on a quarting shot, even on a small animal

Arrows will out penetrate most bullets by a country mile......so thats a great comparison....


A Mt goat is far thicker through the chest than a pronghorn or a whitetail deer. They are heavily muscled in the neck and shoulders.

They certainly are not tough to kill. And a .243 or similar with a good bullet will do the job fine. And would be a better option than a screaming magnum and bergers.....


How many goats have you killed?

Im on triple digits for mountain game, but i guess it doesn't matter haha

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[huntsd]

no such thing as over kill. When in doubt I would go bigger

 

[Formidilosus]

As per my original post......

On good broadside shots its fine.

On quartering shots, they are less than desirable. 4 inches aint shit on a quarting shot, even on a small animal

Arrows will out penetrate most bullets by a country mile......so thats a great comparison....


A Mt goat is far thicker through the chest than a pronghorn or a whitetail deer. They are heavily muscled in the neck and shoulders.

Being that your killed so many, can you show pictures of them without the skin and how thick their muscles and bones are?


The few I’ve seen are far less thick than an elk, and we put Bergers, ELD-M’s, TMK’s, ELD-X’s through them at all angles and kill them without issue. In fact there is nothing about the goats I’ve seen pulled apart that suggests they are anything more than any other animal. Muscle isn’t “tougher” in one species than another. To a bullet doing going 2,000+ FPS it’s all water. 8 inches of antelope muscle tissue is indistinguishable from 8 inches of elk, or moose.

The fact that goats don’t want to die, doesn’t mean that their tissue is any different.

How many goats have you killed?

Less than you, with Bergers. Whether it’s 5 or 500 their anatomy doesn’t change.

Im on triple digits for mountain game, but i guess it doesn't matter haha

The issue isn’t how many you’ve killed, the issue is anatomical reality. Has it every occurred to you that maybe the “goats are so tough” moniker is because people keep shooting them with bullets that create less damage than some broad heads?
The very first elk I killed and butchered I knew that all the BS about how “tough” they were and how you needed “tough bullets” was total nonsense. Now I’m close to 100 of them, and it’s still complete BS. When/if I hit 100 goats I will be saying the same thing- because an animal that’s just over a foot wide is the exact opposite of what you want a deep penetrating bullet for. Anyone can find a full body mount and measure them through the chest- from any angle. 14” gets you through both lungs whether broadside, quartering to, or quartering away. Every heavy for caliber Berger will penetrate 14”.

 

[Formidilosus]

To be clear, this is the thing y’all are claiming requires a deep penetrating bullet for-




They’re like 9 inches through the chest- 12 inches of penetration in the front half gets you through both lungs from about any angle. I can tell you that a 4” knife blade is inside the chest cavity regardless of angle- even through the dreaded “shoulder”.



This is why they look so large-




It’s 5” of hair on each side. Goats (even though MTN goats aren’t) across the world are slab sided, narrow animals.

 

[30338]

I only shot the one I mentioned earlier. A140 berger through the onside shoulder made it drop on the spot. Saw another shot with a 115 ballistic tip and it never got out of its bed. But shoot whatever makes you happy.

 

[JP100]

This is an average sized BC billy.
The head on my axe is 10 inches.
He was 3 of those through the chest.


So...30 inches through the chest


Goats are not bullet proof, nor are they hard to kill. shoot straight, with a good bullet in any normal cartridge and youll be fine.


But the fact still remains.....4" of penetration isnt much....regardless of what you wife says....

 

[JP100]

if it decides to load haha