Goat rifle

[dreamingWest]

Mind you this was pre rokslide .223/TMK thread...
I chose a Barrett Fieldcraft in 30-06 with a 178 grain ELD-X. Goats are narrow and your goal is to avoid a death leap. You want DRT. I figured an explosive bullet from the largest cartridge I could shoot with reasonable recoil was the ticket. It did exactly what I needed from 330 yards.

 

[madcalfe]

ive killed a few goats now and all have dropped with 1 bullet from my 300wsm and 178gr eldx / 180gr nosler accubonds

 

[Jimss]

I've skinned over a dozen mtn goats. There is a difference in the amount of hair in August vs October winter coats. Obviously, there's a lot more and thicker downy hair to penetrate in October. If you've skinned many goats you are also aware that you will need to re-sharpen or switch blades several times before done! A mature billy hide on the top of the back is the thickest hide of any North American species other than possibly a bison or muskox. Probably twice as thick as a mature bull elk.

With that said, the difference between a dead goat being anchored in his tracks vs doing a death dive off a cliff has everything to do with ballistics and bullet placement. Like I've said multiple times take a look at the energy and velocity of the same size bullet of any 30 cal vs a 6.5 creedmore/prc. If you really want an eye-opener compare calibers at 200 to 400 yards. You are just asking for problems with less than a 30 cal! If you want to be safe with a well placed bullet on goats go with 30 cal.

 

[Stalker69]

Damn, sounds like these things are bullet resistant. My neighbor growing up killed several with long bows and several with hand guns. ( said guns were to easy, there kinda dumb). And he never had an issue. Have these things evolved at a faster rate then other animals. I know I see them on mount evens, sometimes when I go snowboarding. And they are not very big animals, and pretty easy to get within 100 yards, some times within 20 without trying to hide or any thing. I’ve never hunted them, but from what I had been told, and when I see them, I can’t believe a 243 or 270 would not be enough. I mean if an arrow or a 44 magnum will put them down, holy shit.

 

[LoggerDan]

30 caliber

 

[Stalker69]

I’d say at least 458 rem mag. 560 nitro better, 30 cal sounds kinda light, from what iam getting outa this.

 

[LoggerDan]

Maybe you aren’t as funny or as clever as you think you are….maybe. 458 rem mag? Never heard of it.

 

[Stalker69]

My bad, Winchester, too small ?
I seem to remember reading magazine articles when I was a kid, by a guy that hunted sheep ( of all kinds) and swore by the 270 win. as being perfect. Now days, that’s not enough, with the advancement in bullet construction and modern powders, I can’t for the life of me, see how it would not be better today, then it was way back then.

 

[Formidilosus]

I've skinned over a dozen mtn goats. There is a difference in the amount of hair in August vs October winter coats. Obviously, there's a lot more and thicker downy hair to penetrate in October.

Hair has little to no effect on bullet penetration regardless of how thick.

If you've skinned many goats you are also aware that you will need to re-sharpen or switch blades several times before done! A mature billy hide on the top of the back is the thickest hide of any North American species other than possibly a bison or muskox. Probably twice as thick as a mature bull elk.

“Hide” on the entrance side is no harder to penetrate generally than muscle.

With that said, the difference between a dead goat being anchored in his tracks vs doing a death dive off a cliff has everything to do with ballistics and bullet placement. Like I've said multiple times take a look at the energy and velocity of the same size bullet of any 30 cal vs a 6.5 creedmore/prc. If you really want an eye-opener compare calibers at 200 to 400 yards. You are just asking for problems with less than a 30 cal! If you want to be safe with a well placed bullet on goats go with 30 cal.

No doubt. So how does the “energy” difference between a 30cal and a 6.5mm change the wound channel? And is it “energy” or caliber that is the difference?

 

[8grenade]

Kimber Montana's are light or if you are going custom look at NULA rifles.

 

[brockel]

I’m taking my 20” tikka 6.5 prc shooting 156 bergers as my primary and my tikka 20” 6.5 creedmoor shooting 143eldx as my backup. Leave next Tuesday to head north for a couple days of driving.

 

[Stalker69]

Good luck, stay safe.

 

[gerry35]

I’m taking my 20” tikka 6.5 prc shooting 156 bergers as my primary and my tikka 20” 6.5 creedmoor shooting 143eldx as my backup. Leave next Tuesday to head north for a couple days of driving.

Good luck on your hunt. I think you'll love those 156 gr Berger bullets and the 6.5 PRC.

 

[Jimss]

Formidilosus,
Yep....energy, bullet diameter, velocity, hide thickness, thick hair, bone density and thickness, body size, etc have nothing to do with why a 30 caliber will drop a big bodied billy quicker than a 6.5. What a joke!

Go for it! Let us all know how your 6.5 performs...especially if you take a shot over around 200 yards! I certainly hope your goat isn't a bloody mess with a broken horn or skull after he does a death dive off a cliff! My biggest word of advice is to have a 2nd round or 3 ready to go after your first shot!

Is it worth the risk....go for it!

 

[brockel]

Formidilosus,
Yep....energy, bullet diameter, velocity, hide thickness, thick hair, bone density and thickness, body size, etc have nothing to do with why a 30 caliber will drop a big bodied billy quicker than a 6.5. What a joke!

Go for it! Let us all know how your 6.5 performs...especially if you take a shot over around 200 yards! I certainly hope your goat isn't a bloody mess with a broken horn or skull after he does a death dive off a cliff! My biggest word of advice is to have a 2nd round or 3 ready to go after your first shot!

Is it worth the risk....go for it!

Curious what your bullet of choice is in the 30 cal

 

[Formidilosus]

Formidilosus,
Yep....energy, bullet diameter, velocity, hide thickness, thick hair, bone density and thickness, body size, etc have nothing to do with why a 30 caliber will drop a big bodied billy quicker than a 6.5. What a joke!

No doubt your understanding of terminal ballistics is more than I losses, so can you explain it? So how does the “energy” difference between a 30cal and a 6.5mm change the wound channel? And is it “energy” or caliber that is the difference?

Go for it! Let us all know how your 6.5 performs...especially if you take a shot over around 200 yards! I certainly hope your goat isn't a bloody mess with a broken horn or skull after he does a death dive off a cliff! My biggest word of advice is to have a 2nd round or 3 ready to go after your first shot!

Is it worth the risk....go for it!

What has your experience been with “6.5” calibers on goats? If you have none on MTN Goats, what other animals?

 

[ckleeves]

I think I have solved the great mountain goat bullet theory. They gained a rep for being tough, so guys figured the “tougher” bullets were needed to put down these tough critter. Then when the really hard controlled expansion/bonded/mono bullets still weren’t putting them down fast enough the next step was bigger guns.

I haven’t seen near the amount of goats shot as some guys so maybe someday I’ll eat my words but I just haven’t seen them be real hard to kill. A well placed arrow and they don’t travel half as far as deer or elk would with the same shot placement. My wife killed a big mature Billy last year with a 6 creed and a 105 vld at 330 yds and he was on his feet for maybe 1.5 seconds after the bullet hit and that was a lung shot. I would put money down that a “tougher” bullet with the exact same shot placement wouldn’t have killed him near as fast. Even if it was 30 cal.

 

[Stalker69]

Well they are closer to God, maybe they evolve faster, and are becoming bullet proof. Arrows will be bouncing off these critters next year I guess.

 

[Stalker69]

Mountain goats are about three and a half feet tall at the shoulder, and weigh between 150 and 220 pounds, or about the same weight as a grown man.
If they require a 300 WM, they must be super heros, or darn near immortal.

 

[Jimss]

Straight out of the Alaska Game and Fish website: Adult female goats weigh about 180 pounds, with males averaging about 280 pounds (in late-summer); prime-aged males often weigh more than 300 pounds, with the largest male yet weighed topping 385 pounds.

Mature billies (5 or 6+ year olds) can barely be moved by one guy. Take a look at the weight of a nanny vs mature billy listed by the AG&F.

My son has a PRC. It's shoots remarkable groups but we've been less than impressed with it's performance on antelope and deer that were shot through the vitals. That's why I am very skeptical about what it will do on mtn goats....especially with winter coats at 200+ yards.