Genetics or Nutrition

[pingpong7]

I shot a buck where the majority of his antlers were bladed, what does this mean? Is it genetics? Or did he eat like a king?

 

[bigmoose]

Was he heavy horned ? Generally a buck will show that characteristic as he ages as well as getting heavy horned. I would think age and genetics is where you will find most bladed type antlers.

 

[pingpong7]

Yes he was heavy horned...so it sounds like genetics played a larger part in this than nutrition?

 

[bigmoose]

Yes he was heavy horned...so it sounds like genetics played a larger part in this than nutrition?

Probably, that and age. I don't recall many young bucks with bladed type antlers. Do you have a photo to share ? Sounds like a pretty cool buck.

 

[Bubblehide]

I think it is a bit more complicated than either, here is why: First, when a buck is young, the vast majority of nutrition goes into building a maturing animal, both physically and psychologically. This process of the vast majority of nutrition going to physically growing, working toward a physically mature buck. As a buck matures, and nears his optimal size, he requires less nutrition to maintain himself. He has also matured mentally, in that in if he has survived, he has incorporated into his make-up, that one needs to take in more than one expends to survive. That is simply IMNSHO a law of nature. But since a mature buck requires less nutrition than a growing deer, he should naturally have the reserves for good antler growth. And, as we see that same buck age, and that same buck ability to intake and process nutrition (one example is worn teeth), we see a regression in antler growth. So, for any given area, or subspecies within an area, genetics surely has something to do with it, but for the deer within that area, it has much more to do with maturity and where a buck is in relation to having the nutritional reserves to obtain that excellent antler growth we all like to see. I also think that the environment has a lot to do with antler growth. What I mean is that in an environment that is fairly choked with brush, those bucks need to be able and capable of navigating their environment, escaping from predators..., as such, in areas that are primarily composed of thick brush, surviving simply mean wide antlers will get hung up on brush, subsequently greatly reducing such a bucks chances of survival.

Feed quality, sure it plays a part, But if a buck is in the stage of growing and maturing physically, nature just dictates that the nutrition consumed, primarily goes to the physical growth and maturation of the animal. That's why in any given area, we see young deer with smaller antlers than those in their prime, and those past their prime with antlers that are regressing. In my book, the stage of antler development simply tells us about the stage of life a buck is in.

 

[BruinPoint]

None of these are what I would consider old deer, but look at the difference in body size. There's a lot of energy required to put on body mass before it can go to antler development.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[bigmoose]

I still think that genetics play the main part in a bucks ability to grow bladed type antlers and he may not show this trait until he gets older. I've seen lots of old bucks, dead and alive, that don't have bladed antlers. Very few do, in my opinion. It is just another cool thing that big bucks have going on with their antlers as they get old.

Bubblehide... you may have gotten a little off track and I do NOT share the same opinion on much of what you stated. I'm not into arguing. Maybe we could talk it over sometime over a couple beers.

 

[Bubblehide]

...

Bubblehide... you may have gotten a little off track and I do NOT share the same opinion on much of what you stated. I'm not into arguing. Maybe we could talk it over sometime over a couple beers.

I have no issues with a discussion of differing opinions, add a beer or two, and hey, I'm all in.

 

[Cliff Gray]

antler structure, size, etc... is 90%+ genetics and the environment that has supported the evolution of those genetics

all the true big buck country that produces has two things in common 1)low harvest to allow for age and 2)genetics

the strip, jicarilla, CO unit 44, etc... its not a difficult formula

 

[dguthrie85]

Bigmoose, lets see a pic of the buck, don't hold out on us.

 

[bigmoose]

Bigmoose, lets see a pic of the buck, don't hold out on us.

pingpong7 is the OP and I would also like to see a photo.

 

[RAHC]

antler structure, size, etc... is 90%+ genetics and the environment that has supported the evolution of those genetics

all the true big buck country that produces has two things in common 1)low harvest to allow for age and 2)genetics

the strip, jicarilla, CO unit 44, etc... its not a difficult formula

Good post here. Low harvest and the right nutrition are key for bucks to grow. The problem with lots of Idaho I know are great nutrition, historically good genetics ( B&C ), but very liberal general October season. We don't grow big bucks on this side of the state they have to escape the general season in order to get big. October is a tough time to hunt big Mule Deer, but big deer are killed and those that are cant pass those genetics along during the rut. Genetics are a combination of everything that equals age; escapement, nutrition, and biological diversity (typical/non). So the real question is do you hunt an area that has the genetic potential but a high harvest or do you hunt an area that has less overall harvest, higher age class but poor genetics?

 

[MuleyFever]

I also think that the environment has a lot to do with antler growth. What I mean is that in an environment that is fairly choked with brush, those bucks need to be able and capable of navigating their environment, escaping from predators..., as such, in areas that are primarily composed of thick brush, surviving simply mean wide antlers will get hung up on brush, subsequently greatly reducing such a bucks chances of survival.

I don't know that I agree with this. I think of Texas and the thick brush country that consistently produces wide antlered deer. Also, many very large deer are taken from the thickest nasty part of an area.

 

[Bubblehide]

I don't know that I agree with this. I think of Texas and the thick brush country that consistently produces wide antlered deer. Also, many very large deer are taken from the thickest nasty part of an area.

Take note of what areas those wide antlered deer use, and you'll note that they can wield those antlers around those areas without getting them hung up.

 

[RAHC]

I thought this thread would get a little more play. I think about these things in relation to potential hunting areas all the time.

 

[bigmoose]

The short answer is yes, you need to hunt the area with the genetic potential. If you hunt a area without the genetics to produce B&C type bucks, you may never find one. Not all bucks, no matter how old, will grow B&C type antlers. Very few have the genetic make up to do this. To increase your odds of harvesting a B&C type buck you have to hunt where they have been known to have been taken. Your second choice area, the one without the genetics, could still produce some real monsters and maybe even a B&C type buck at some point but the odds are against it. Old age alone won't do it even with great nutrition.

 

[kpk]

I'd say it's about 90% genetics from what I've seen. I've shot a few bucks that have split brow tines and they've all come from the same area. I know a guy that's shot several deer that have the bladed antlers and again they are all from the same area. A few miles down the road from either place and you're likely not to see the same characteristics. The area that we're in the "boss" does the vast majority of the breeding so it only makes sense. I think the genetics are there and from that point it's up to the diet as to whether that genetic potential will come through or not.

 

[JustHunt]

+1 BigMoose

Pingpong, a buck would have bladed antlers because of genetics, not because of what or how much he eats. Some bucks will never be bladed, no matter what they eat, or no matter how old they get. Their antlers typically get more massive with age but mass and blading are two different things. Please post a pic, seems like you may have taken quite a special buck.