Gaps in specialized ammo

[bluetick78]

I know I've posted a few times here about turkey loads for different guns. I'm starting to see though, that there's some really obvious blank spots in ammo selection. The 2 I've become aware of recently are 2 3/4" 12 gauge turkey loadings, and lead loads for turkeys in 16 gauge. I work with, and associate with, a good number of people that regularly hunt turkeys in at least a few western states. Most of them own an old fixed- choke gun in 12 or 16 gauge that they'd like to use for spring gobblers. Unless you want to spend $80-$100 for 5 TSS shells ( that may or may not pattern), you are stuck with pheasant loads that typically won't throw turkey-acceptable patterns past 25 or 30 yds. In 2 3/4" 12 gauge, most manufacturers only make their lowest-end loadings, and they only pattern about like a pheasant load.
It makes me wonder if we'll always be stuck using $20/ apeice TSS loadings, or hoping for 25 yd shots with pheasant loads. I know some sub-gauge (410 & 28) have stolen the spotlight lately, but with TSS costs being astronomical I think a lot of "average" hunters are going to go back to lead. Seems like there's a real gap there that manufactures could capitalize on, or am I thinking the old shotgun crowd is bigger than it really is?

 

[dtrkyman]

With the price of TSS some hand loads are coming around in nickel plated lead, maybe contact them, check with Windy Hill precision.

 

[FLS]

Nitro Cartidge Company

 

[Skerhunter]

Very small market!

Average guy is going to find some 4’s/5’s that are cheap because they still work at reasonable distances. Guys that want to shoot further are going to have dedicated guns and TSS ammo.

 

[Macintosh]

1) yes, you are overestimating the size of the old shotgun crowd. Or overestimating their desire to pay $20/shot for fancy turkey-specific ammo. Or both—its really the overlap of those two factors that is driving any demand for what you are talking about. In combination I think its a tiny demand.

2) most of the guns in 12/2.75” and 16ga are either older guns that are damaged by hard shot so it isnt appropriate in the first place, or are $$$$ specialty guns that arent what people will use for turkeys anyway. I think this is more the issue. This crowd is shooting bismuth ammo for waterfowl because it is soft-enough for the older barrels while still being heavier than steel, and b/c steel is hard enough to damage many of those guns. Tungsten is harder than steel.

I would try some bismuth waterfowl ammo in 6’s. Being harder than lead it’ll likely pattern tighter.

 

[N2TRKYS]

See if Winchester Longbeard XR has an offering for your chambering.

 

[Amos Keeto]

I know I've posted a few times here about turkey loads for different guns. I'm starting to see though, that there's some really obvious blank spots in ammo selection. The 2 I've become aware of recently are 2 3/4" 12 gauge turkey loadings, and lead loads for turkeys in 16 gauge. I work with, and associate with, a good number of people that regularly hunt turkeys in at least a few western states. Most of them own an old fixed- choke gun in 12 or 16 gauge that they'd like to use for spring gobblers. Unless you want to spend $80-$100 for 5 TSS shells ( that may or may not pattern), you are stuck with pheasant loads that typically won't throw turkey-acceptable patterns past 25 or 30 yds. In 2 3/4" 12 gauge, most manufacturers only make their lowest-end loadings, and they only pattern about like a pheasant load.
It makes me wonder if we'll always be stuck using $20/ apeice TSS loadings, or hoping for 25 yd shots with pheasant loads. I know some sub-gauge (410 & 28) have stolen the spotlight lately, but with TSS costs being astronomical I think a lot of "average" hunters are going to go back to lead. Seems like there's a real gap there that manufactures could capitalize on, or am I thinking the old shotgun crowd is bigger than it really is?

WOW! Missed this thread!
I'm a "16 gauge freak"!
Im a "lead shot" freak!
... AND ...
A standard, 2.75" "ammo freak"!

From the time I was allowed to hunt solo, I was taught "... Pattern density kills, not shot size! ..."

First off! I have "OFS"! (that's Old Fart Syndrome!)
I'm not about to spend $10/shell for ammo!
YES! I want to kill a turkey, but not to the point of paying that much for ammo! I'm a tightwad! Not a cheapskate!
Then, TSS aside, I also refused to pay double figure dollars for "turkey specific" ammo. You only get 5 to 10 rounds! A box of twenty-five 2.75" ammo is less money!
I have killed "many" turkeys with plain old 2.75" ammo with a load of #8's or #7.5's!
Twelve AND 16 gauge!
I'm a "recoil weenie"! I'm not paying for "magnum" ammo just to get kicked senseless!
I don't shoot anything bigger than #6 shot because I've got ages old ammo with 6, 7.5 and 8 shot. Im not tossing it out!

NOTE: I'm big on using #8's for turkeys because of a denser pattern. The new TSS craze lauds the use of #9 shot!
Why?
Pattern density!

 

[Macintosh]

See if Winchester Longbeard XR has an offering for your chambering.

There was a recent thread specifically on this, sounds like its also either hard to find or not available.

B

Thread '2.75" Winchester Longbeard'

Mar 24, 2026

I have a specific need for some Winchester Longbeard shells in 2 3/4". It's for an old shotgun that is probably not suitable for TSS ( nor do I want to spend $80-$100 for 5 shells). The gun only takes 2 3/4". Winchester's website shows it as an active item, but finding any of them locally or online has proved fruitless.
Do any of you know where to find a box or 2 of these? Or have some you'd be willing to part with?

• bluetick78
• Replies: 27
• Forum: Game Birds

 

[eamyrick]

In two years I’ve killed two gobblers with 2 rounds of Apex #9 TSS. I used 5-6 rounds to pattern it 3 years ago but the 1-2 rounds a year at $35 bucks is a small cost compared to everything else that goes into a hunt. Shot my bird this year at easy upland load distant but last year the bird was hung up further. The extra confidence of TSS is worth the cost.

 

[Macintosh]

The new TSS craze lauds the use of #9 shot!
Why?
Pattern density!

Well, not entirely. TSS is 60% denser than lead, so a #9 tss shot penetrates much deeper than an equivalent lead shot, and retains velocity at much longer range. On top of that it also patterns tighter than lead due to being much harder. And then obviously smaller shot has more pellets per. So the reason people recommend such small shot with tss is a lot more than simply pattern density, its density combined with mass and hardness. I have no doubtnit works for you, but Ive never heard anyone recommend such small lead shot for turkeys. In lead, sizes 6, 5 or 4 was what nearly every resource Ive ever seen recommended.

But yeah, lead shot still works. Maybe TSS doesnt warrant the cost for some. or maybe they just dont have the option.

 

[RockAndSage]

Well, not entirely. TSS is 60% denser than lead, so a #9 tss shot penetrates much deeper than an equivalent lead shot, and retains velocity at much longer range. On top of that it also patterns tighter than lead due to being much harder. And then obviously smaller shot has more pellets per. So the reason people recommend such small shot with tss is a lot more than simply pattern density, its density combined with mass and hardness. I have no doubtnit works for you, but Ive never heard anyone recommend such small lead shot for turkeys. In lead, sizes 6, 5 or 4 was what nearly every resource Ive ever seen recommended.

But yeah, lead shot still works. Maybe TSS doesnt warrant the cost for some. or maybe they just dont have the option.

Denser, and with less surface area, both leading to extremely good penetration. Deer and hogs are getting taken down with BB and T shot, coyotes down to #4 and even #6s.

The deciding factor for me on TSS is shot opportunity. I might hike several high-desert, rugged miles in the September sun just to get one or two opportunities on sage grouse, or out through the snow to remote, winter mudholes for one or two opportunities on waterfowl. In those cases, 100% TSS. But on dove, quail, chukar, rabbits, etc, where there are plenty of opportunities, it's lead.

The only time I've been disappointed with TSS performance has been a couple of bizarre cases of #9s hitting birds, dropping them stone-cold "dead", and then a minute or two later the bird wakes up and takes off. Happened 2 or 3 times with 9s, never at all with 7s. Best I can guess is the 7s are breaking bone and also causing better blood loss, but the 9's are poking holes in bones but leaving them structurally intact, with slower bleeds, while just temporarily shocking the nervous system. Obviously a #9 to the brain is a different issue, which is why I think guys are getting great results with 9's on turkey. My experiences were with passing birds, so body shots. Plenty came down to 9s, but those few that took off were enough to have me switch up to the 7s. And those hit hard.

 

[Amos Keeto]

"... Denser, and with less surface area, both leading to extremely good penetration. ..."

"... Obviously a #9 to the brain is a different issue, which is why I think guys are getting great results with 9's on turkey. ..."

Both points I've made pre TSS!
1) less surface area (bearing surface?), easier penetration
2) it only takes a single (ONE) pellet, regardless of size, to the brain/CNS to take a turkey.

The more shot you put on target, the greater the chance for a fatal pellet strike.

Shooters always want to "test" turkey loads by shooting at a ten (10") inch circle and counting the pellet hits!
A turkey's head is about the size of a quail.
Test your load on a two (2") inch circle!
THAT will tell you if your choke, gun, ammo will work on turkeys!

Before you get the idea I don't like TSS, think again.
1) If TSS wasn't so expensive, I'd probably swap over myself!
2) TSS has extended the effective range of shotgun ammo to the point sloppy hunters will continually push the limits of TSS to ridiculous limits.

 

[LongWayAround]

We did a lot of pheasant hunting when I was a kid. One of my dad's buddies was an older guy who was always into niche guns.

I shot my first turkey with one of his guns, a Parker side-by-side. I don't exactly recall the gauge but I want to say it was a 20. I had no idea the value of that gun at the time, though I do remember it was very nice.

That guy was always shooting a 16 or 28, something odd. He was the only person I have ever run into that would possibly have wanted a 16ga turkey load.

There is just no real market for that. If I wanted to shoot a turkey with one, I would just buy a pheasant load. Same-same dead turkey...

I think there are quite a few 2.75" chambered 12s out there. But again, I would just buy a box of pheasant loads and call it a day.

Thinking back to those days of pheasant hunting, I seem to recall Fiochi had about the heaviest payload of the shells we commonly shot. A 2.75" load of copper plated 5 or 6 shot would kill any turkey at a reasonable distance.