Future of Muzzleloader hunting

[roadrunner]

The left handed creedmoor season would definitely be over crowded

Lefties don't shoot creedmores...

 

[GetWestern]

It definitely needs to be reworked with how advance ML are these days. I wish Utah would go back to just the lower power scopes that would help stop people shooting 500 plus yards at animals. The season is meant for opportunity with restrictions on the weapon, hard to see that now because it’s turned into a single shot rifle season.

 

[CorbLand]

Checking Utah and the unit that I primarily hunt, the success rates on the muzzleloader season haven't really changed a ton in the last 7 years. The surprising thing to me is that they have largely kept up with rifle success rates and drastically out paced archery.

Scopes went on muzzleloaders in 18 or 19 in Utah?

Also have to remember that in Utah across this time span, tag allocation has largely decreased and success rates and tag allocation are not linear in relation. Generally as less tags are allocated, success rates drop more than the tag decrease. So, as tags decrease and success rates stay the same, we as hunters are being more effective.

	A	M	R
15​	16.7​	30.4​	32.9​
16​	11.4​	29.7​	35.2​
17​	6.7​	19.6​	20.2​
18​	16​	26.1​	27.6​
19​	7.9​	16.4​	18.5​
20​	12.9​	21.6​	21.6​
21​	10.3​	30.7​	40.9​
22​	12.7​	35.4​	35.4​
Average	11.825​	26.2375​	29.0375​
Median	12.05​	27.9​	30.25​

 

[Hoodie]

How about a left handed 6.5 Creedmoor only season?

As a lefty whose only rifle is a 6.5 CM I want to know how we can get the ball rolling on this.

 

[dsotm]

Why stop with muzzleloaders? Take away bow sights and only allow recurves. Let's let them take away until there is nothing left to take!

 

[CorbLand]

Why stop with muzzleloaders? Take away bow sights and only allow recurves. Let's let them take away until there is nothing left to take!

Why stop on what we dont allow and just make it a free for all? Then we can make every tag once in a lifetime.

 

[Airborne]

I believe Utah allowed any power scopes on Muzzy's in 2016.

 

[HighUintas]

Muzzleloaders, specifically the American longrifle, are a key part of American rifle heritage.

Restricting the technology in ML seasons helps to preserve the history and knowledge of these works of art. Pennsylvania has an incredible community of longrifle builders and enthusiasts... They also have a flintlock only deer season.

 

[OKHunter84]

Technology is out-pacing the regulations.
I'm going to get punched for saying this, but I think there are also parallels with archery technology out there.

Man I agree for sure. The Garmin sights that range for you and everything are crazy. Heck even my spott hog fast Eddie after I chronograph my arrows and put a specific sight tape is crazy compared to 90's archery.

 

[OKHunter84]

Checking Utah and the unit that I primarily hunt, the success rates on the muzzleloader season haven't really changed a ton in the last 7 years. The surprising thing to me is that they have largely kept up with rifle success rates and drastically out paced archery.

Scopes went on muzzleloaders in 18 or 19 in Utah?

Also have to remember that in Utah across this time span, tag allocation has largely decreased and success rates and tag allocation are not linear in relation. Generally as less tags are allocated, success rates drop more than the tag decrease. So, as tags decrease and success rates stay the same, we as hunters are being more effective.

	A	M	R
15​	16.7​	30.4​	32.9​
16​	11.4​	29.7​	35.2​
17​	6.7​	19.6​	20.2​
18​	16​	26.1​	27.6​
19​	7.9​	16.4​	18.5​
20​	12.9​	21.6​	21.6​
21​	10.3​	30.7​	40.9​
22​	12.7​	35.4​	35.4​
Average	11.825​	26.2375​	29.0375​
Median	12.05​	27.9​	30.25​

Check out success rates on new Mexico restricted muzzleloader seasons compared to regular muzzleloader and there's a large difference if I remember right.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Friend of mine has one with no scope but a "globe" sight. He's still good to 400 or so with just that. It's pretty amazing what some of these guns can do! I think more and more limitations will be coming down the pipe as well

Consistently hitting a target at 400 with a muzzy with iron sights seems like a 0.1% kinda thing. I imagine 95% of people are comfortable out to 100 with iron sights and 4.9% are comfortable to 150.

 

[GetWestern]

Checking Utah and the unit that I primarily hunt, the success rates on the muzzleloader season haven't really changed a ton in the last 7 years. The surprising thing to me is that they have largely kept up with rifle success rates and drastically out paced archery.

Scopes went on muzzleloaders in 18 or 19 in Utah?

Also have to remember that in Utah across this time span, tag allocation has largely decreased and success rates and tag allocation are not linear in relation. Generally as less tags are allocated, success rates drop more than the tag decrease. So, as tags decrease and success rates stay the same, we as hunters are being more effective.

	A	M	R
15​	16.7​	30.4​	32.9​
16​	11.4​	29.7​	35.2​
17​	6.7​	19.6​	20.2​
18​	16​	26.1​	27.6​
19​	7.9​	16.4​	18.5​
20​	12.9​	21.6​	21.6​
21​	10.3​	30.7​	40.9​
22​	12.7​	35.4​	35.4​
Average	11.825​	26.2375​	29.0375​
Median	12.05​	27.9​	30.25​

Interesting chart thanks for posting that.

 

[Spence1875]

I am good to 200 with my irons on my cheapo. But crazy accurate tc impact with factory sights on an 8 inch pie plate.

If I put some better irons could stretch that out a little bit not worth it.

The muzzle loader thing has come along way since I started with my tc kit I built as a teen.

I have to tell you I kind of agree with the limitations, a good buddy killed a an elk with a what i guess is a ML at over 600 yards last year in NM. It is a custom built deal with custom swaged bullets and take smokeless powder I think. He had about a 2 k scope on it and is a hell of shot.

Great hunt, but not primitive.

Be safe all.

 

[CorbLand]

Interesting chart thanks for posting that.

I want to do it for all of Utah but I cant figure out how to convert the PDF to Excel. It gets messed up every time I do it.

I asked the Division for an Excel file but they told me they dont have it in Excel.

The thing that surprised me the most is how close the success rates are to the rifle hunt, even some being exactly the same. This is the part that I think people miss overall. If the success rate is the same as a "more effective weapon," what justifies it having its own season?

 

[journeyman713]

 

[Spence1875]

LMAO

 

[magnum]

I am in favor of maximizing hunting opportunity across the west. I mean I want to see fewer draw only units, more OTC units, and more Tom, Dick, and Harry’s participating in this great endeavor we all love. I also want to see healthy ungulate herds. To balance all of the above, one approach might be to enact regulations that maximize seasons and hunting opportunity for users who take to the field with primitive weapon technology. These users would be sacrificing efficacy for the sake of opportunity and time in the field. Regulating for technology creep would be an important part of maintaining this type of system. In my opinion, advancements in modern muzzleloading is an example of technology creep. For muzzleloading specifically, are we at the point where states should be looking at improving definitions or in some cases, tightening regulations? My opinion is yes.

Example: 209 primers are legal to use in Washington. They weren’t legal historically, having become legal only a few years ago. I’ve hunted with both musket caps and 209 primers. I can say from first hand experience that 209 primers make me more effective with a muzzleloader by providing 1. more reliable ignition and 2. Less time between trigger pull and ignition. In my opinion, this is an example of technology creep that, through improved efficacy, will reduce hunter opportunity in the long run.

 

[long hunter]

If we're lucky it will go back to the original intent, flint lock or percussion open sights only. But with saying this it's like the bow hunting debate, long bow, compound bow, cross bow. It's a money thing for the game and fish depts. more opportunities more license fees coming in.

 

[idelkslayer]

I'm a traditional muzzleloader guy. I prefer it if the muzzleloader rules support a more primitive style as was clearly the intent. In my state, Idaho, the rules support this. There are restrictions on sights, powder, projectiles and ignition exposure to weather which try to maintain the limited range and effectiveness of the muzzleloader season.

As far as I'm concerned the most important limitation is requiring iron sights or at least open sights. This alone restricts the effective range of most shooters. Sure there will be some guys that with a peep and globe style setup can reach out to 200 yards or further but most hunters will be limited to around 100 yards.

 

[jewbacca]

There was a good hard look at limiting scopes to maybe 1x here in Utah. For now they seem to have tabled that conversation. It was a very hotly debated issue tho.

I hope it passes eventually. I don't see the point of having a ML season and then letting everyone hunt with scoped rifles. Either make it a late rifle season or put performance limits on the weapon.