Future of CO OTC Elk Tags

[Laramie]

You guys wanting to trade otc hunts for 1 pp hunts are laughable. Take a look at the history of Wyoming pp required to draw general tags. Follow by year. My guess is it will take 5 to draw next year in the general.

 

[Ridge Hunter 83]

I wouldn't mind seeing changes to the OTC system. For the NR talking about $$, they probably don't know that Parks Passes are being added to all vehicle registrations (with an opt-out) at $40/per, which will fund the same things their tags did - new parking lots and bathrooms at state parks, with the leftovers going to Fisheries and Wildlife.

The reality is there is too much recreation and hunting pressure in a lot of areas now due to the population boom in CO and the popularity of western hunting. The animals come out of winter stressed and starving; get pushed around by eager hikers and bikers before calving season, get ravaged by bears and lions during calving season, pushed around more thru the summer (high mtn sunrise pics, 24 hr ultramarathons, backpackers, sheep herders, etc...), bugled at to the point of going silent and nocturnal in Sept by everyone and their cousin, then picked off by rifle hunters on their way to winter range that gets smaller every year due to human encroachment. Drought and fires exacerbate the situation, as the winter range may not have regrown any food (or it grew a subdivision) and the summer range may have burned up.

The trajectory we are on is not sustainable, hopefully it's addressed before we get too far into the 'bust' part of the cycle.

Yes. 100%!!! Also, most people are happy with their "big" "huge" 6x6 elk. I want to see 7x7 elk... or better! I want to see non-typical elk. Most of the elk, today, other than game farms, are 6x6 or less and some (maybe many) are not good quality. Today, with the ridiculous hunting pressure, the 7x7 and better are virtually nonexistent... they do not exist in any real numbers. It's time to put the entire mess on ice!

 

[Ridge Hunter 83]

Here here! I’m all for paying non res prices and limiting non res tags to a couple dozen statewide

That would be a good start to fixing the mess... for sure. Give it five years... there would be some huggggggggggggge elk... some actual "huge" elk.

Here's a little something more to think about: I would gladly pay $1,000 or more for a resident elk tag and then price the non-resident tag at $2,000 or more (perhaps $3,500). Hell, maybe even $5,000 for non-residents; they wouldn't be setting up wall-tents the size of convention centers with hot tubs and Miller beer signs then! That would fix the mess... right quick! And, I wouldn't have to listen to bullets zinging 3' past my head as I walk through the woods!

There ya go, Colorado... I gave you the plan! You're welcome!

 

[Billy Goat]

Didn’t those new draw units have leftovers?

The first year, then numbers were massively cut.

Things are still shaking out.

 

[wind gypsy]

You guys wanting to trade otc hunts for 1 pp hunts are laughable. Take a look at the history of Wyoming pp required to draw general tags. Follow by year. My guess is it will take 5 to draw next year in the general.

I would think 71k NR tags vs 12k NR tags would change things a bit but annual tags could disappear pretty quick.

 

[Sako76]

Pennies compared to skiing and summer tourism. They are already starting to charge other fees to recreational users, as that increases hunting revenue loses leverage. If you have been out here lately you probably noticed many people using the resources who aren’t hunting.

CoStick--is Colorado now charging $1200 to look at elk and deer?

 

[Sako76]

Pennies compared to skiing and summer tourism. They are already starting to charge other fees to recreational users, as that increases hunting revenue loses leverage. If you have been out here lately you probably noticed many people using the resources who aren’t hunting.

CoStick--is Colorado now charging $1200 to look at elk and deer?

 

[Laramie]

I would think 71k NR tags vs 12k NR tags would change things a bit but annual tags could disappear pretty quick.

You are correct... Not apples to apples. What I laugh at is the misconception that the tags will remain easy to draw. Just like other western tags, they will get more difficult to get as time goes on.

I do think timing of the draw will matter though. Colorado currently gets a lot of people who fail to draw other tags. However, once tags are limited, they will become a lot more desirable.

 

[CoStick]

CoStick--is Colorado now charging $1200 to look at elk and deer?

They can charge $10 if 100 people buy the needed licenses to go to state parks and wildlife areas. The annual state parks pass is a default on car registrations going forward I believe. There are plenty of revenue streams that are being set up. An influx of population can do that.

 

[cnelk]

Ive said it more than once

Unlimited tags to draw for specific DAUs - Easy for both hunter and herd management.

[a DAU is not a GMU]

 

[AaronMColeman]

I'm so torn on this. Personally I'd rather hunt a bad unit every year than a great one every 3-5 (or more). I also hate the idea that those who came into hunting late in life have very little chance of drawing with the point creep. It sucks and I don't think we have a truly great solution anywhere.

Maybe a straight up draw for the middling units and pp for the primo units. But this sucks, I see big game western hunting becoming a rich man's game more and more as public land hunts become harder and guided becomes expensive.

 

[kenny8906]

$$$, this is the CPW biggest obstacle, even if it wanted to limit the tags. The NR brings a lot of $ to the CPW and economy. I agree with everyone I'd rather go less for a better experience. If they convert OTC to limited draw to where it actually benefits the elk, then I believe the tag price would increase dramatically to still meet budgets. The local economies would notice the difference as well.

 

[coelkhunter89]

I wouldn't mind seeing changes to the OTC system. For the NR talking about $$, they probably don't know that Parks Passes are being added to all vehicle registrations (with an opt-out) at $40/per, which will fund the same things their tags did - new parking lots and bathrooms at state parks, with the leftovers going to Fisheries and Wildlife.

The reality is there is too much recreation and hunting pressure in a lot of areas now due to the population boom in CO and the popularity of western hunting. The animals come out of winter stressed and starving; get pushed around by eager hikers and bikers before calving season, get ravaged by bears and lions during calving season, pushed around more thru the summer (high mtn sunrise pics, 24 hr ultramarathons, backpackers, sheep herders, etc...), bugled at to the point of going silent and nocturnal in Sept by everyone and their cousin, then picked off by rifle hunters on their way to winter range that gets smaller every year due to human encroachment. Drought and fires exacerbate the situation, as the winter range may not have regrown any food (or it grew a subdivision) and the summer range may have burned up.

The trajectory we are on is not sustainable, hopefully it's addressed before we get too far into the 'bust' part of the cycle.

All excellent points. I also think the Forest Service and BLM need to be more restrictive of hiking/biking opportunity during calving.

That being said it’s not all gloom and doom. CO still has more elk than anywhere. I think that in units where elk are overpopulated they should allow unsuccessful archery hunters to roll there tag to rifle season. I’ve honestly never understood why the season structure is the way it is. And I absolutely support a draw especially for NR. I think they need to give fewer people more opportunity, increasing the success rate and total harvest; bringing the overall population to sustainable levels through hunting. But this all requires nuanced management, which doesn’t seem to be CPW’s cup of tea…

 

[txhunter581]

Here here! I’m all for paying non res prices and limiting non res tags to a couple dozen statewide

You and 3 other hunters

 

[arock]

Split the archery season and make everything a straight lottery like NM.

At a minimum I think the reporting in Colorado is antiquated (to put it nicely) and stupid if you really get down to it. The tags should be digital so that when you punch them and get internet access - actual results are documented and it could pull your location to determine where you harvested the animal. I'd think that would be incredibly useful information and it should be fairly easy to collect.

They could also sneak in some stuff to pull more location info when the app is opened, create some heat maps regarding hunter movement and compare that to observed herd migrations. That data could drive management decisions rather than pissing up hill and wondering why they're standing in a puddle. But that is more of a long term nice to have.

If you want to keep some areas OTC - cool beans - there's a lot of animals. Even if they kept close to a free for all, you should need to pick an area, those GMU's should probably limited in some respects to total tags issued and or there could be a harvest quota and when that quota is hit that particular area is closed not dissimilar to AZ.

 

[Vandy321]

I wouldn’t mind if Colorado went to an all draw system for elk.

And a 90/10 allocation to res/nr

 

[Str8shooter]

I foresee something like DAU specific tags or OTC with caps or possibly more are more units going to draw and absolutely a continued increase in cost for both Res and Nonres. For those lamenting cost increases, I dont believe we are even close to the cost that could be supported by existing (let alone future) demand. The non public-land states will continue to pay hand over fist to come to hunt and move to public land states in the west, (750k moved to CO since 2010) and supply and demand dictates increases in cost (to say nothing of future risks to game population supply re winter habitat development, human recreation disturbance, energy production, wolves, better hunting/scouting technology). The ability to raise Res prices now no longer requires CO congressional approval and is in the hands of the wildlife commission which overwhelmingly approves CPW proposals writ large (typically a good thing). Big picture, while its not as simple as more people, less game, higher cost tags. Its likely something resembling that.