Fragments in Meat?

[Chris_in_Idaho]

The Garrett Carrot is probably the best hand held metal detector on the market but there are other makes that are less expensive. One would be surprised how useful a Carrot can be.

Sounds pretty cool.

 

[UPThunderbolt]

I appreciate all the discussion. Nothing will vaporize my wife's support of my hunting faster than her or one of my boys biting a chunk of bullet. So while toxicity of lead is an important topic, it's not exactly what I was trying to ask about in this thread. Also I've seen how some of the other lead toxicity discussions have devolved into name calling and willful ignorance...

But since the worms are mostly out of the can at this point I might as well jump in as well:

I'm not super concerned about the acute effects of lead making me sick, as in "lead poisoning." But I do definitely have concerns about long term effects on my sons (8 & 11) both on their cognitive abilities and also when they have kids I don't want my grand kids to be a little slower because I fed lead to their dads.

Life is hard, it's harder if you're stupid. I don't want to set them up to be more stupid.

I'm not saying I know whether these effects would happen or not or that I'm making a decision based only on this possibility, but it is a factor in my thinking.

As mentioned before, a solid chunk of bullet in the meat would be catastrophic for my hunting. Most likely I'd catch them all while butchering, but that's another factor I'm considering.

If I decide to go with fragmenting lead bullets, I get the benefit of being able to use very small calibers and be able to spot my own impacts.

If I decide to go with monos, I need to bump up to a bit bigger to make up for the less violent terminal performance. This means a bit more recoil and probably not spotting my own shots.

So as I see it I'm choosing between eliminating the possibility of toxicity and solid fragments in food on one hand or being able to spot impacts on the

I’ve found small pieces of lead in ground venison killed with an 140gr AMax from a 6.5 Creedmoor. Heart/lung shot placement.

John

I quit using Nosler Ballistic Tips because I didn’t like the fragments I was finding away from the point of impact. One example I remember clearly was a heart shot that produced fragments in the backstraps.

 

[Dom186]

I quit using Nosler Ballistic Tips because I didn’t like the fragments I was finding away from the point of impact. One example I remember clearly was a heart shot that produced fragments in the backstraps.

Helpful thanks

 

[112Savage]

I have used and use both copper and lead-cored bullets. In typical hunting cartridges 6ARC to 9.3x62 I have not noticed a difference in effectiveness with copper vs lead. I’ve used lead as far as 430yds in 300WSM and copper at 286 yds in 9.3x62. I realize this isn’t super long western distances but it would represent 90%+ of most animal kills in NA.

I have found copper jacket and lead fragments in loin that I have butchered myself. It definitely travels further than we think. I use both without really thinking about “lead in the meat” honestly I have thought about going copper only for hunting but I’m always looking for the best mousetrap when reloading.

I know this post is really a net “0” from argument's sake but really the point is that at less than 400 yds I’ve not seen significant difference in effectiveness but neither that nor the bullet fragments I’ve found sway my bullet choice. I will say the CARROT thing sounds interesting.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

I have used and use both copper and lead-cored bullets. In typical hunting cartridges 6ARC to 9.3x62 I have not noticed a difference in effectiveness with copper vs lead. I’ve used lead as far as 430yds in 300WSM and copper at 286 yds in 9.3x62. I realize this isn’t super long western distances but it would represent 90%+ of most animal kills in NA.

I have found copper jacket and lead fragments in loin that I have butchered myself. It definitely travels further than we think. I use both without really thinking about “lead in the meat” honestly I have thought about going copper only for hunting but I’m always looking for the best mousetrap when reloading.

I know this post is really a net “0” from argument's sake but really the point is that at less than 400 yds I’ve not seen significant difference in effectiveness but neither that nor the bullet fragments I’ve found sway my bullet choice. I will say the CARROT thing sounds interesting.

I appreciate you sharing your insights. 9.3x62 is a cool round!

 

[ozyclint]

How long until we see a thread? -

Which fragmenting bullet fragments the least?

 

[ozyclint]

My good friend is a falconer. He fed some game meat to one of his birds and killed it. He sent it in for a necropsy and found it died from lead poisoning. Birds are much more sensitive than humans but the bullet fragments are there regardless of if you can see them.


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Might just be a default response to a dead raptor.

 

[cuerro viejo]

My good friend is a falconer. He fed some game meat to one of his birds and killed it. He sent it in for a necropsy and found it died from lead poisoning. Birds are much more sensitive than humans but the bullet fragments are there regardless of if you can see them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not all birds, but raptors are especially sensitive to it

 

[Shortschaf]

Have you found fragments in your meat?

No. None of my family has either

What bullet?

Bullets are cup and core copper/lead bergers, hornady, and speer. Have eaten from at least 40 different dead animals myself.

What shot placement? What cut of meat?

Behind shoulder preferred, but animals have had injuries ranging from the back heel to the jawbone we process everything ourselves and throw ruined muscle.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

The people that I hunt with including me, butcher our own. Back in the good old days we would cut roasts and removed all bone. We always used a Garrett Carrot metal detector on the deep meat cuts to ensure there are no cooties or anything we couldn't see. We also used the Carrot on the bodies we killed just to make sure there wasn't something in there to cut or hurt us. Almost every bear the group killed had some form of broadhead or spent slug in the body somewhere. Same thing with a few of the elk we put down. We found about a seven inch piece of aluminum arrow and broadhead in it's liver. The Garrett Carrot is probably the best hand held metal detector on the market but there are other makes that are less expensive. One would be surprised how useful a Carrot can be.

Took mine off the butcher shelf to let a buddy borrow it to find a buried sprinkler head at his new house, he found it in less than 5 min...lol

 

[ColPenguin]

My FIL shot a spike buck last year with a .270 Win., 130 grain Core-Lokt. He hit in the spine.

I cut steaks out of the heart and was eating on it for lunch, and bit into a fragment. I have no idea how a fragment deflected that far from the spine. There was no apparent damage or bloodshot to the heart muscle itself. I rinsed it off real good and that little fragment was still in there after cleaning and searing it.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

I appreciate all the discussion. Nothing will vaporize my wife's support of my hunting faster than her or one of my boys biting a chunk of bullet. So while toxicity of lead is an important topic, it's not exactly what I was trying to ask about in this thread. Also I've seen how some of the other lead toxicity discussions have devolved into name calling and willful ignorance...

Very polarizing subject as you can see…despite the intent of your thread.

Me personally, I think the lead danger to humans is a waste of time. Plenty of other toxins in the environment and food supply nowadays that will get me and my family far faster. Fact.

That being said, there are different levels of “I’m scared of lead” and ways you could mitigate lead exposure.
1. Shoot what you want and trim out as much lead/copper damaged meat as possible.
2. Shoot a bonded bullet.
3. Shoot mono bullet.
4. Start archery hunting and forget rifle hunting.

I’m staying with choice 1.

In any of the four choices listed above, I would highly recommend butchering yourself. All of my headaches, off flavors, stolen meat, etc. went away when I learned to butcher my own meat. It’s a fun activity for the family too. A great way to teach the kids where their food comes from, and perhaps a way to get your wife unit more comfortable.

 

[mt terry d]

View attachment 963797

Lead Bullet Fragments in Venison from Rifle-Killed Deer: Potential for Human Dietary Exposure - PMC

Human consumers of wildlife killed with lead ammunition may be exposed to health risks associated with lead ingestion. This hypothesis is based on published studies showing elevated blood lead concentrations in subsistence hunter populations, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

View attachment 963822View attachment 963823

The average healthy adult human body contains approximately 0.1 to 0.2 grams (100–200 mg) of lead in total, with the vast majority (about 90–95%) stored in bones and teeth as a long-term reservoir. The remainder is distributed in soft tissues (e.g., liver, kidneys, brain) and blood.

How many of us old guys cast our own bullets from wheel weights ( when they made good ones) and played with mercury as kids? Not to mention having lead paint and asbestos in our schools, eat lard and bacon and eggs and fat sirloins and have zero health effects from any of it?

"Scientific Research" today is first and foremost Big Business.

 

[handwerk]

I've had such good experiences with the Barnes TTSX and LRX they're all I load anymore in the 9 different cartridges we hunt with. I like less bloodshot meat and don't shoot beyond 500 yards so I've not seen a downside.