ELD-X issues

[S-3 ranch]

.308win 130gr ttsx @ +/- 325 yards on a big old queen cow elk on our property in Colorado, did exactly what I expected & DRT

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

This is a deer scapula. Note that it is thin enough that light passes thru it. Its covered by a muscle that is roughly 2” thick, if that. I dont discount that sometimes bullets do odd things that may be hard to predict. I simply am posting this to say that in the vast majority of cases no centerfire bullet is going to be slowed down by 1/8” thick bone. Could it hit the knuckle? Sure, but its still a relatively thin bone that shatters, and based on size the odds are thats not where it hits. I would chalk up the one weird experience as a fluke until you have at least 2 or 3 examples that all line up. You may or may not like a given bullet, I just dont see how that particular experience is anything but an anomaly.

View attachment 930574

Indeed. And you want to know what happens when you place these with fur/hide over them immediately in front of 10% spec gel and shoot them with ELDXs, SSTs, and ELDMs?

Nearly the same thing that happens inside animals. Excellent killing wounds.

Guys shooting one or two shots on animals in a year and then blaming a certain bullet or making a general statement regarding a bullet is like guys cherry picking 3 shot groups. You don’t have enough information to know what’s really happening. Same goes for an animal that was DRT.

I’ve had similar experiences to OP with what most here would say is “a good tough hunting bullet”. I’ve also had experiences similar to OP with the bullets I’ve mentioned above. 95+% of hunters aren’t killing enough and doing good enough necropsies to make informed decisions. Sorry to make folks upset but it’s reality.

I will say this, since I started doing my own testing and started killing lots of animals with tipped style bullets, going back to 2013 with SSTs and others since then, the average distance travelled after being shot is far lower. The amount of animals I had to track long distances is far lower. The amount of lost animals due to a “tough bullet” penciling through and the animal goes for miles is far lower. Despite over that time being told that the bullets I’m using bounce off of animals from hundreds of hunters, guides, etc.

 

[SloppyJ]

I was dyed in the wool of controlled expansion bullets growing up in the south and that's all I used. It wasn't by choice but it's just what was given to me and what had always worked. The go-to was a corelokt. I still have a half box of original corelokts from the 80s that my grandpa gave me with my first rifle in .243. Even though they are bonded and have a tapered jacket, some of the wound channels I've seen from them are on par with match bullets. That's what really made it click for me when I started to think outside of what I've always done.

When I started actually caring about what bullets I shot I went more towards accubonds and then I tried a partition. This was the 2nd phase of it "Clicking" with me. The partitions just straight up worked. Everything I shot got their dick knocked in the dirt, quickly.

Then I branched way out and tried some Bergers and I fell in love. They shot so much better and they were devastating even at close range. On that front I've taken game with Nosler Ballistic Tips, ELDMs, Sierra TMKs, Berger Elite Hunters and Classic Hunters.

The results speak for themselves and out of more than 15 deer that were shot with match bullets, only one fell down out of sight. I can count on one hand the number of animals that actually went down in sight with a controlled expansion bullet. More than just bullet construction goes into that but with heavy match bullets and all of the practice that we've been getting in over the past few years, I've never felt more confident when an animal is in the cross hairs.

I think it's extremely important to point out that my case is a bit different because in the thick woods down here, most of my shots are going to be 100yds and under. Mostly under. So if anyone were to have a problem with a bullet "exploding" I think that I would have seen it with the higher velocity impacts but I've yet to see it. I've heard it used a ton when speaking with friends but it always comes down to them making a shitty shot.

 

[Blcktail56]

This is a deer scapula. Note that it is thin enough that light passes thru it. Its covered by a muscle that is roughly 2” thick, if that. I dont discount that sometimes bullets do odd things that may be hard to predict. I simply am posting this to say that in the vast majority of cases no centerfire bullet is going to be slowed down by 1/8” thick bone. Could it hit the knuckle? Sure, but its still a relatively thin bone that shatters, and based on size the odds are thats not where it hits. I would chalk up the one weird experience as a fluke until you have at least 2 or 3 examples that all line up. You may or may not like a given bullet, I just dont see how that particular experience is anything but an anomaly.

View attachment 930574

I agree but definitely start questioning things when it happens. If it happens again it could result in a lost animal if I’m in different conditions that are not decent to track in. It’s one thing for a bullet to not penetrate through shoulder and blow lungs up and everything else that gets in the way. But this one barely slowed the deer down. If it’s gonna stay in the shoulder it better at least ruin that leg completely

 

[Blcktail56]

It sounds like it impacted high and on a trajectory into the high shoulder/spinal area with heavy bone and muscle density, causing it to upset and and stop fairly fast, as opposed to being in the cavity and through vitals.

A 340 yard quartering to shot on a deer is a pretty risky shot for the best of shooters. Add in adrenaline, shit-kicking magnum, and weird bullet performance.. Sounds like a shitty shot.

Could not have placed the shot better at 100 yds. Don’t have pics but it was not high at all and he was not quartered to super hard. Should have blown up shoulder and passed through both lungs. He was not uphill. If the bullet did its job the deer wouldn’t have made it 40 yds.

 

[Blcktail56]

It sounds like it impacted high and on a trajectory into the high shoulder/spinal area with heavy bone and muscle density, causing it to upset and and stop fairly fast, as opposed to being in the cavity and through vitals.

A 340 yard quartering to shot on a deer is a pretty risky shot for the best of shooters. Add in adrenaline, shit-kicking magnum, and weird bullet performance.. Sounds like a shitty shot.

Definitely a shot you have to consider conditions and exact angle and everything but plenty doable when things are right

 

[Blcktail56]

Indeed. And you want to know what happens when you place these with fur/hide over them immediately in front of 10% spec gel and shoot them with ELDXs, SSTs, and ELDMs?

Nearly the same thing that happens inside animals. Excellent killing wounds.

Guys shooting one or two shots on animals in a year and then blaming a certain bullet or making a general statement regarding a bullet is like guys cherry picking 3 shot groups. You don’t have enough information to know what’s really happening. Same goes for an animal that was DRT.

I’ve had similar experiences to OP with what most here would say is “a good tough hunting bullet”. I’ve also had experiences similar to OP with the bullets I’ve mentioned above. 95+% of hunters aren’t killing enough and doing good enough necropsies to make informed decisions. Sorry to make folks upset but it’s reality.

I will say this, since I started doing my own testing and started killing lots of animals with tipped style bullets, going back to 2013 with SSTs and others since then, the average distance travelled after being shot is far lower. The amount of animals I had to track long distances is far lower. The amount of lost animals due to a “tough bullet” penciling through and the animal goes for miles is far lower. Despite over that time being told that the bullets I’m using bounce off of animals from hundreds of hunters, guides, etc.

I am definitely not trying to say it’s a shitty bullet or that will happen every time. Just hard not to question it when you shoot one critter with it and it performed terribly and not at crazy long range. Just trying to gather information from people on here that know more than me or different than me.

 

[S-3 ranch]

“”Guys shooting one or two shots on animals in a year and then blaming a certain bullet or making a general statement regarding a bullet is like guys cherry picking 3 shot groups. You don’t have enough information to know what’s really happening. Same goes for an animal that was DRT.””

I will debunk your statement, as on our 15,000 acres we are required to kill 30-50 does and 30 cull bucks before thanksgiving, so roughly 60 deer
And so we have tried about every thing ever made , match bullets , bonded , mono All reliably kill, match or soft thin jackets are the wonkiest, either with explosive mess or deformation, I would say match stuff is good for western long distance hunting, but I don’t think 90% of hunters have the room or time for shooting in wind and rain enough to be proficient anywhere past max 400yards no matter what bullets are used!

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

“”Guys shooting one or two shots on animals in a year and then blaming a certain bullet or making a general statement regarding a bullet is like guys cherry picking 3 shot groups. You don’t have enough information to know what’s really happening. Same goes for an animal that was DRT.””

I will debunk your statement, as on our 15,000 acres we are required to kill 30-50 does and 30 cull bucks before thanksgiving, so roughly 60 deer
And so we have tried about every thing ever made , match bullets , bonded , mono All reliably kill, match or soft thin jackets are the wonkiest, either with explosive mess or deformation, I would say match stuff is good for western long distance hunting, but I don’t think 90% of hunters have the room or time for shooting in wind and rain enough to be proficient anywhere past max 400yards no matter what bullets are used!

What exactly are you “debunking”. I simply shared my experience and others, using all bullets and what happens when animals are shot with them. We keep track of distances travelled after impact, if follow up shots are used, etc. followed by detailed necropsies to try and learn what happened.

I’m apart of culling and killing deer and elk every year in multiple states. My statements aren’t “opinion” or able to be “debunked” by a stranger on the internet. They are just reality and what we’ve seen over the last 25 years of killing.

Anyone I know in real life who is actually killing dozens of animals per year and has switched to bullets like ELDX, SST, ELDM, TMK etc. are all sharing similar findings to mine.

There are no “perfect” bullets and each animal is unique in what it does when shot. Like you said, all bullets can kill and can be very effective, there are just some that are more effective and more reliable kill after kill after kill in what I and others have seen.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I am definitely not trying to say it’s a shitty bullet or that will happen every time. Just hard not to question it when you shoot one critter with it and it performed terribly and not at crazy long range. Just trying to gather information from people on here that know more than me or different than me.

I appreciate posts like yours and sharing findings. This is a good site to post kill photos and evidence, as several members here can help with necropsy diagnosis.

 

[nm.otter]

I don’t think 90% of hunters have the room or time for shooting in wind and rain enough to be proficient anywhere past max 400yards no matter what bullets are used!

This ^^^

 

[Macintosh]

I agree but definitely start questioning things when it happens. If it happens again it could result in a lost animal if I’m in different conditions that are not decent to track in. It’s one thing for a bullet to not penetrate through shoulder and blow lungs up and everything else that gets in the way. But this one barely slowed the deer down. If it’s gonna stay in the shoulder it better at least ruin that leg completely

Sure. So try this:

Go buy 100 lb of 2” thick steaks, a giant roll of sticky velcro, and a sheet of 1/4” plywood. Use the velcro to attach an even layer of steaks to your 1/4” plywood. Now you have a 4’x8’ barrier approximately similar to a deer shoulder. Using this as a “shield”, stand behind it and have your buddy shoot at it with a 7rem mag shooting 162gr eldx bullets at 2950fps. Should be no problem, that “shoulder” should block those soft bullets, right?

Its possible that some of your buddies bullets dont penetrate. But. How many times out of thousands do you think a centerfire rifle WONT penetrate that? The length of the bullet itself is more than half the depth it needs to penetrate to avoid what you described happening again. Of course it makes you notice and question things if you get one wonky result. Im just trying to objectively/humorously show the likelihood of that happening a second time. When you think about it objectively can you rationalize what you described being anything but a fluke?

(And yes, Im aware sticky velcro doesnt adhere well to meat. Its sort of a joke, hopefully you get the point—critter “shoulders” just arent that substantial.)

 

[Blcktail56]

Sure. So try this:

Go buy 100 lb of 2” thick steaks, a giant roll of sticky velcro, and a sheet of 1/4” plywood. Use the velcro to attach an even layer of steaks to your 1/4” plywood. Now you have a 4’x8’ barrier approximately similar to a deer shoulder. Using this as a “shield”, stand behind it and have your buddy shoot at it with a 7rem mag shooting 162gr eldx bullets at 2950fps. Should be no problem, that “shoulder” should block those soft bullets, right?

Its possible that some of your buddies bullets dont penetrate. But. How many times out of thousands do you think a centerfire rifle WONT penetrate that? The length of the bullet itself is more than half the depth it needs to penetrate to avoid what you described happening again. Of course it makes you notice and question things if you get one wonky result. Im just trying to objectively/humorously show the likelihood of that happening a second time. When you think about it objectively can you rationalize what you described being anything but a fluke?

(And yes, Im aware sticky velcro doesnt adhere well to meat. It’s sort of a joke, hopefully you get the point—critter “shoulders” just arent that substantial.)

For sure a good way to think about it! I have just seen a lot of deer fall to an SST and others and never seen anything relatively close to this. I do feel that it was a fluke but also figured if 20 other guys get on here and reply saying they have had similar shit with an ELDx that makes it a common fluke which may make me want to change. Going to continue to test them this year and hopefully see what they do on some game and if I remember I will get back on this thread with an update.

 

[Braaap]

I shot this bull last fall at 100 yards and right in the shoulder with a 143 eldx. He took a step or two and fell over. The impact velocity was around 2,400 fps.

 

[Braaap]

Here.

 

[Harvey_NW]

For sure a good way to think about it! I have just seen a lot of deer fall to an SST and others and never seen anything relatively close to this. I do feel that it was a fluke but also figured if 20 other guys get on here and reply saying they have had similar shit with an ELDx that makes it a common fluke which may make me want to change. Going to continue to test them this year and hopefully see what they do on some game and if I remember I will get back on this thread with an update.

Take most hunters "bullet performance" reviews with a giant handful of salt, they're typically ironic and standing over a dead animal, and have no idea what they're talking about anyways because they don't understand how the different constructions of bullets work. Also consider that the ELD lines are the most popular precision shooter bullets on the market, so they undoubtedly have this biggest "failure" report. You're in the right place bringing your concerns here.

No doubt, this sounds like an anomaly. As others have said, a 162 going 2950 isn't not making into a deer cavity without something weird happening. If all you found was the core, that means it impacted with enough velocity to completely upset, and did it's job. I know you're certain that it was a perfect shot, but something else besides vitals absorbed that energy and the jacket fragmentation. I would chalk it up as a one off, and continue shooting it and upping your own sample size for comparison.