FORMADILIOUS.........I'm calling you OUT!!

[Sled]

For a scope, look at a Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40. They are cheap and in my experience rock solid reliable. They are not a dialing scope, but if your shooting deer with a 223 you probably are not shooting much past 300 yards, so it’s not needed.

Not my first choice but I put one on a light weight Kimber 6.5cm for up close work. It took at least 2 falls, one pretty hard in a hail/t-storms and still was zeroed. That rifle took a mature bull elk and a moose after all the abuse.

For the weight and cost it's pretty hard to beat, especially if you're looking a Leupold instead.

 

[Antares]

If you want a 223 - an AR15 is a great option and more versatile than a Tikka bolt rifle.

How so?

Best alternative is a grown-up sized gun.

What do you mean? It has a full-size stock.

 

[Bbell12]

Are you going with a factory option? Does not seem like much is chambered in 6CM

No, getting my Tikka re-barreled to one. The reason I say it’s the logical #2 is because of its versatility and bullet availability.

Plus if you look at Form’s painless load development thread, you’ll find he’s killed a pile of big game animals with his 6mm. The 6mm bullets are deadly.

 

[Formidilosus]

You would take the 108ELD-M over 95gr NBT?

The 95gr NBT kills well. However it has a low BC and consequently will not reach the ranges that I need.

I'm curious why the 6CM is an obvious as second rather than the 22-250?

The question was about for states with a 6mm minimum.

 

[Dobermann]

2-12 Helos is a better scope

Well ... it's heavier than the SWFA.

But I'm sure most of us here are always up for good (or better) options ,,, hence this thread.

Anyone know if the Helos has been drop-tested?

 

[chicoredneck]

How so?



What do you mean? It has a full-size stock.

An AR can be just as accurate or nearly so as a Tikka with the right components. It’s easy to swap out barrels at home with simple tools to get the right length and contour you want. You can set one up to a weight of your choosing and with variable stock lengths for different sized shooters.
An accurate semi auto is nice as it’s a better tool if doing drives and/or jumping deer and for predators. Also, it will still shoot just as good at longer distances as the tikka.
You can have two uppers set up, one with a short barrel for hunting woods, and one with a longer barrel for more open country. They easily swap out in a minute.

 

[Antares]

Also, it will still shoot just as good at longer distances as the tikka.

I don’t know any precision shooters, long range shooters, or mountain hunters that run an AR. Why is that?

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Someone help me drink the coolAid. I own a swfa 10x and though it’s nice, no way in hades would I wait 2 years to buy another one.

Especially considering the other options in that quality price point.

 

[Rob5589]

An AR can be just as accurate or nearly so as a Tikka with the right components. It’s easy to swap out barrels at home with simple tools to get the right length and contour you want. You can set one up to a weight of your choosing and with variable stock lengths for different sized shooters.
An accurate semi auto is nice as it’s a better tool if doing drives and/or jumping deer and for predators. Also, it will still shoot just as good at longer distances as the tikka.
You can have two uppers set up, one with a short barrel for hunting woods, and one with a longer barrel for more open country. They easily swap out in a minute.

Mag length limits the AR if running long bullets. Unless you want to single load. I used to shoot with guys that used the platform and they all single loaded off a sled.

 

[Tex223]

Well ... it's heavier than the SWFA.

But I'm sure most of us here are always up for good (or better) options ,,, hence this thread.

Anyone know if the Helos has been drop-tested?

I have drop tested 2 of these scopes. Both passed. They have both been riding in my truck for 3 months and have not needed any adjustments thus far. We will see how they hold up but so far they are very good.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'm curious why the 6CM is an obvious as second rather than the 22-250?

It seems to me that there's a lack of factory rifles for the 6CM and a lack of heavy factory ammo for the 22-250.

So you're stuck either reloading or rebarreling?

I'm sure I'm missing something though...

I'm thinking I'll either have enough holiday funds for one of three things.
1.) Suppressor
2.) Reloading
3.) Form's Special

243 if you want 6mm. It’s not as sexy as creed or has the hipster popularity, but it flat out works. Tikkas 243’s are only 10 twist so it won’t stabilize bullets like 105 hybrids and such but there are plenty of great bullet options out there that it will stabilize and have been killing big game for a long time. Also lots of factory ammo options that are more available and less $$ than the similar options in the Creedmoors.

In a rifle with a weight of the Tikkas the 243 is still easy to shoot.

Only down side is barrel life. If you’re not burning it down shooting 10 round strings or loading super hot with a powder that torches throats you’ll get 1500-2000 rounds before velocity starts falling off which will be about the same as a 22-250 but only about 1/3 of the barrel life of a 223.

 

[cmahoney]

I don’t see anything wrong with that 8 twist 22-250. That’s a great option if you are going to load some 77 gram TMK’s or 80 grain something else.

The Ruger American .243 with the 9 twist could be another budget option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wind gypsy]

There's a number of reasons ARs are at a disadvantage apples to apples vs bolt 223:
- Longer lock time = less forgiving
- Less consistent velocities
- Usually dont want to run pressures as high
- Mag length COAL limitations

That said, I have a factory rock river 20" predator pursuit AR that will shoot 77 TMKs at least as tight as my T3x lite 8 twist 223. I'm really not that impressed with how my tikka shoots 77 TMKs to be honest. If you put the #'s in a hit calculator it's probably more than sufficient accuracy for any realistic purpose but most of my bolt guns will shoot tighter than it @ 100.

The thought of ARs for deer drives makes me cringe hard. Not going to argue that they offer faster follow up shots but If we're talking deer i really wish people would concentrate on only taking shots that don't require a follow up. They aren't hard to kill. I've seen so many rubes with semi's for "brush" or running deer that cant ******* shoot to save their life and they think that tossing lead is the answer which only perpetuates their shitty shooting because they don't focus on just shooting better.

 

[wind gypsy]

2-12 Helos is a better scope

I don't have a rifle needing a scope, was just curious if I'm ever going to see a replacement for the scope i sent to SWFA in December of 2020.

Interesting option though. Is this a made in phillipines scope? China? Seems like another in a long line of highly featured scopes with likely decent glass that dont hold up. And listed price is what I paid for 3 of my existing LRHS or LRTS scopes that weigh closer to the same than does a SWFA 3-9.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

There's a number of reasons ARs are at a disadvantage apples to apples vs bolt 223:
- Longer lock time = less forgiving
- Less consistent velocities
- Usually dont want to run pressures as high
- Mag length COAL limitations

The lock time is accurate, but you're wrong on the others. There's no reason that a quality AR should produce less consistent velocities than a bolt gun. That's just going to come down to the actual load and how the rifle shoots it. An AR 223 and bolt gun in 223 with the same barrel length and same quality barrel the AR will have slightly less velocity but that's the only difference.

Both will shoot full pressure ammo no problem, so that's not true.

Tikka 223's have short mag OAL's too which leaves you modifying the mag, ordering aftermarket mags that are iffy, or changing to a different mag system.

AR's work great for huntings and deer hunting. The only real disadvantage is that some states still don't allow big game hunting with a semi auto, and some states AR's are illegal to bring into the state at all.

 

[Darryle]

I have a Mack Brothers Evo II standard bolt face stainless action, Manners EH1 stock and Hawkins M5 Hunter DBM bottom metal, was tempted to build a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Now, I am honestly considering a 22 Creedmoor, any reason not to?

 

[wind gypsy]

The lock time is accurate, but you're wrong on the others. There's no reason that a quality AR should produce less consistent velocities than a bolt gun. That's just going to come down to the actual load and how the rifle shoots it. An AR 223 and bolt gun in 223 with the same barrel length and same quality barrel the AR will have slightly less velocity but that's the only difference.

Interesting. My experience has been that my ARs never get that consistent on MV and thought I read something about the gas system having something to do with that. Maybe just a limited sample size at play.

 

[jfs82]

I have a Mack Brothers Evo II standard bolt face stainless action, Manners EH1 stock and Hawkins M5 Hunter DBM bottom metal, was tempted to build a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Now, I am honestly considering a 22 Creedmoor, any reason not to?

Have to handload or go to unknown munitions. But that's about it in my mind, but, obviously I built the 22 creed so I'm biased. Run the 88gr eldm @3250 through a ballistic calc and you'll be shocked.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Interesting. My experience has been that my ARs never get that consistent on MV and thought I read something about the gas system having something to do with that. Maybe just a limited sample size at play.

I wouldn't doubt that bad parts or leaking gas block or something could cause that, but its not the case in a quality rifle with quality components. The 224V I had with a Craddock barrel had an ES of 7-8 consistently per 5 shot group with 95gr SMK's and Varget. My generic 223 load with varget and Berger 77gr OTM's usually had single digit ES's too or at worst low teens across multiple rifles.

Sub 20fps ES is damn good, sub 25fps is good and about the best case scenario for factory ammo. I consider 35-40fps from factory ammo to be acceptable and is about the norm I've found for quality ammo. It's not uncommon to see 60+ FPS in the cheap stuff and bulk ammo and I've seen as much as 150fps over a string, but it'll do that in a bolt gun or a gasser because it's just crappy ammo.

 

[sndmn11]

I don't have a rifle needing a scope, was just curious if I'm ever going to see a replacement for the scope i sent to SWFA in December of 2020.

Interesting option though. Is this a made in phillipines scope? China? Seems like another in a long line of highly featured scopes with likely decent glass that dont hold up. And listed price is what I paid for 3 of my existing LRHS or LRTS scopes that weigh closer to the same than does a SWFA 3-9.

if you are a semi special person they are ~$425. If you pay, I'll order one up, test it, and then send it to you.