Forloh Method Backpack Test and Review Complete on Page 2

[ryjack70ss]

My issue is there are many of us that may not know what a backpack is supposed to fit like. Especially when you cannot try them on before purchasing. Sure, you can order a few grand worth of packs and send back the ones that don’t fit great, but many don’t have that opportunity and again, don’t know if something fits great. So we as the consumer are at the mercy of reviews and companies that show you how things should fit. I have an exo. Only pack I tried. But they have videos describing fit and adjustments and have people who answer the phone and emails helping with fit and function. Many other brands are similar in my reviews. So to buy into advertising USA made but nothing else is smoke and mirrors in my opinion. Especially when it costs more than tried and true. To me it’s like buying fishnets instead of Sitka baselayers because the company said they have new technology, didn’t show data to support it, then charge 40% more.

Again I am not a pack expert, but something is off. Probably should have had someone reputable and ethical test this BEFORE trying to sell to the public who may or may not know the difference.


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[Venom One]

The minimum wage in Puerto Rico is $8.50. The minimum wage in Vietnam is $4.27 at current exchange rates.

While Texas is technically part of the USA, with only the federal minimum wage of $7.25 it is even closer to Vietnam wages than Puerto Rico.

Interesting; I wouldn't have guessed that. Although, I'd be curious to know how many people are actually making $7.26/hr. Austin's minimum wage was $15/hr in 2018, and technically, Austin is part of Texas.

Maybe FORLOH just really cares about Puerto Rico and they're willing to eat the cost of shipping materials over there to help those people rather than just mfr'ing here. A very generous gesture that they probably don't get enough credit for.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Yeah that thing doesn't fit for..........well you know As predicted by many that frame is way too short. Lets see how that 26" frame everyone said they needed to offer in the first place works

Ya that's some BS right there. Hopefully they get a few packs or something worthwhile for their efforts.

Would you rather have some WKR test these products or people who are paid by the company to tell you how amazing the product is? Give me a wkr every single time!

 

[fngTony]

Would you rather have some WKR test these products or people who are paid by the company to tell you how amazing the product is? Give me a wkr every single time!

I agree, someone spending their free time and gas money is going to be pretty honest.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I agree, someone spending their free time and gas money is going to be pretty honest.

There’s a reason companies spend a lot of money to get insta famous hunters to “test” their products. I don’t think I can remember the last time one of them didn’t love everything about the product they were testing!

 

[Marbles]

Interesting; I wouldn't have guessed that. Although, I'd be curious to know how many people are actually making $7.26/hr. Austin's minimum wage was $15/hr in 2018, and technically, Austin is part of Texas.

Maybe FORLOH just really cares about Puerto Rico and they're willing to eat the cost of shipping materials over there to help those people rather than just mfr'ing here. A very generous gesture that they probably don't get enough credit for.

FORLOH has not impressed me, but Puerto Rico is certainly as USA as Alaska and Hawai, minus voting representatives in congress (which DC does not have either). I would rather pick a bone with a company employing Californians or New Yorkers if I'm going to be picky about were my USA made goods come from. (For the record, I'm not).

I cannot say for certain, but I would not count on shipping costing more. If you were to use a sew shop in Mountain Home, Arkansas you would be dependent on tractor trailers to move materials and product a good portion of the way. From Puerto Rico one might be able to load it directly into a shipping container, move that a few miles to a port, then from the port ship by rail most of the way in the lesser 48. Rail and water are both cheaper per mile than road.

It is possible there is better skilled labor for sewing, or that the local government subsidizes some aspect of the manufacturing to attract employers (common throughout the USA). While local laws will vary, the same federal labor laws apply in Puerto Rico as in any other US jurisdiction. Overall, most American's don't really understand Puerto Rico's status. The only reason I do is I was a Spanish linguist in the Navy. Though if you were to go deep my knowledge would be found lacking as, other than understanding geopolitics, Puerto Rico is domestic and thus not of operational interest.

I bet most of Texas would be happy if technically Austin was not part of Texas. Being raised in Arkansas, I would be happy if Texas was not technically part of the USA. However, now that I can remind Texans that my state could be divided in half to make Texas the 3rd largest state I don't mind it as much.....

 

[Christopher.Reed]

FORLOH has not impressed me, but Puerto Rico is certainly as USA as Alaska and Hawai, minus voting representatives in congress (which DC does not have either). I would rather pick a bone with a company employing Californians or New Yorkers if I'm going to be picky about were my USA made goods come from. (For the record, I'm not).

I cannot say for certain, but I would not count on shipping costing more. If you were to use a sew shop in Mountain Home, Arkansas you would be dependent on tractor trailers to move materials and product a good portion of the way. From Puerto Rico one might be able to load it directly into a shipping container, move that a few miles to a port, then from the port ship by rail most of the way in the lesser 48. Rail and water are both cheaper per mile than road.

It is possible there is better skilled labor for sewing, or that the local government subsidizes some aspect of the manufacturing to attract employers (common throughout the USA). While local laws will vary, the same federal labor laws apply in Puerto Rico as in any other US jurisdiction. Overall, most American's don't really understand Puerto Rico's status. The only reason I do is I was a Spanish linguist in the Navy. Though if you were to go deep my knowledge would be found lacking as, other than understanding geopolitics, Puerto Rico is domestic and thus not of operational interest.

I bet most of Texas would be happy if technically Austin was not part of Texas. Being raised in Arkansas, I would be happy if Texas was not technically part of the USA. However, now that I can remind Texans that my state could be divided in half to make Texas the 3rd largest state I don't mind it as much.....

The Texas quote was funny because I have used it my entire life as I grew up in Alaska. After spending five years active in the Marine Corps, I settled in Arkansas so it’s a small world.

I have had a different experience with Forloh however. While I don’t own all their gear, I have been incredibly impressed with every item that I do have and will continue to acquire more of their gear in the coming years.

While the prices are a little higher and there is certainly a marketing gimmick that revolves around “made and sourced in the USA”, I haven’t found a quality product that totes the same quality for a lower price and would gladly pay an extra $40 for a quality product that is sourced from the country I love. Considering the current environment, that isn’t easy to do as most of our manufacturing has been outsourced for too many reasons to list in this post.

My real concern is that I was seconds away from buying this pack and thankfully was able to abstain because I did my research and simply didn’t see the relevant reviews from trusted sources. “Influencers” are for sale but Rokslide serves as a counterbalance to that dynamic IMO and this only serves to enforce that belief for me. Forloh is a sponsor and we still got an honest review? that’s the way business should be done from both sides.

I trust the reviewers in this process and now more than ever I trust Forloh because of their response to the situation. Sure they should have done more testing but there is a big difference between making high end technical hunting apparel and packs. Sure their CEO came on and touted the technology but for those of you that have never been a CEO (I have), that’s the job. You create a product that you think is better than everyone else’s and preach that gospel until your proven wrong by a discerning group of consumers. Focus groups can only carry you so far; you need real world experienced users to carry a product across the finish line where quality is concerned.

Mistakes will be made in all new endeavors but I for one will be standing at the front of the line to buy this pack if/when they get it right and will continue to acquire more Forloh gear as they continue to innovate.

On a completely separate note: their solair pants are freaking amazing. The insect guard or whatever it’s called actually works and the cooling thingymawhatsit actually works as well. I can shoot my bow for an hour in 90+ degrees with high humidity and while my torso is drenched in sweat (wearing a cotton T shirt) my legs have little to no perpetration. It could simply be that they are the lightest pants I have ever worn, it could also be the UPF, or any number of factors but at the end of the day, they have been the only pants I’m comfortable wearing this summer.


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[bsnedeker]

I love all the miss information being thrown around here.

Forloh is manufactured in New Jersey and California, not Puerto Rico. The company is incorporated in PR and the owner lives there, but every actual job in the company is in the continental US.

I would love to know where all the hostility comes from directed at this company. It's absolutely insane to me the degree to which some of you people feel the need to crap on this company.

You don't like the pack, you think they designed it poorly.... ok great. That doesn't mean they are trying to scam you. Good grief.

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[Marbles]

I love all the miss information being thrown around here.

Forloh is manufactured in New Jersey and California, not Puerto Rico. The company is incorporated in PR and the owner lives there, but every actual job in the company is in the continental US.

I would love to know where all the hostility comes from directed at this company. It's absolutely insane to me the degree to which some of you people feel the need to crap on this company.

You don't like the pack, you think they designed it poorly.... ok great. That doesn't mean they are trying to scam you. Good grief.

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Are you saying it would be bad if they did employed US citizens and taxpayers who do not live in the continental US?

 

[CoHiCntry]

Appreciate the information on this thread that's supposed to be about Forloh's Method backpack "test & review". Hopefully it doesn't veer to far off course with information about Puerto Rico, Texas, Arkansas, wage discrepencies etc. There's plenty of other threads for the same old guy's bickering back and forth about the same old junk... I'm sure most guy's would rather hear about the backpack instead of a geography lesson.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I love all the miss information being thrown around here.

Forloh is manufactured in New Jersey and California, not Puerto Rico. The company is incorporated in PR and the owner lives there, but every actual job in the company is in the continental US.

I would love to know where all the hostility comes from directed at this company. It's absolutely insane to me the degree to which some of you people feel the need to crap on this company.

You don't like the pack, you think they designed it poorly.... ok great. That doesn't mean they are trying to scam you. Good grief.

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Is the california sewing facility the same one Kifaru outsource to? If so, that’s a good sign of the quality!

 

[Sherman]

I would love to know where all the hostility comes from directed at this company. It's absolutely insane to me the degree to which some of you people feel the need to crap on this company.

You don't like the pack, you think they designed it poorly.... ok great. That doesn't mean they are trying to scam you. Good grief.

Maybe you missed the initial thread where they came on saying they have revolutionized the pack industry and all packs before them have screwed the pooch when it comes to pack frame sizing and their new technology trumps all other pack frames and there is no longer a need for multiple frame sizes. When asked about testing, they just said to trust them and pay the $800. When pressed, they finally released some pictures of some dude carrying a heavy load with the straps above the load under great stress pulling extremely hard on the gentleman’s shoulders. It was clear that the frame was far too small and the load lifters were useless, yet Furloh stated their packs were designed by special forces dudes and there is nothing wrong with them, there is only something wrong with every other pack company and to pony up the $800 as they are made and sourced in the USA. Then they sent a pack out for testing by WKR’s and guess what? Every single thing they told us not to worry about, that their technology and design was the future, and our eyes were lying to us, was all a ruse. The frame was too small, the load lifters sucked, the hip belt was not as advertised, and the pack could not handle loads.

That is where the hostility towards this company comes from. We do not enjoy being gaslighted. Good grief.

 

[BBob]

Would you rather have some WKR test these products or people who are paid by the company to tell you how amazing the product is? Give me a wkr every single time!

No doubt I’d rather have members opinions and testing but my bitch was more about the silly first attempt at a one fits all design and obvious minimal testing or research they did in the first place.

 

[amassi]

No doubt I’d rather have members opinions and testing but my bitch was more about the silly first attempt at a one fits all design and obvious minimal testing or research they did in the first place.

They did extensive research into what buzzwords word garner attention from insta fuds.
Made in USA
Military grade
Special forces designed
Field testing ( this was literally testing in the field behind their shop)

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[Wilderlife]

I would love to know where all the hostility comes from directed at this company. It's absolutely insane to me the degree to which some of you people feel the need to crap on this company.

You don't like the pack, you think they designed it poorly.... ok great. That doesn't mean they are trying to scam you. Good grief.

I just went back through the forum and found the other threads and was going to link them here for you but I see you were very active in the 'FORLOH pack launched today!' thread so you should be very aware of the issues.

Interestingly, someone suggested that FORLOH charging as much as they are for this pack when it hasn't been extensively tested is crazy, and you said...

"I mean good lord...are you being purposefully obtuse? Have you not read anything that Forloh has posted in this thread? Do you enjoy throwing out ridiculous criticisms of companies for absolutely no reason? Does that give you pleasure?

Forloh has stated QUITE CLEARLY that they have field tested this thing extensively. The handful of pictures that they shared with us are from that field testing and evaluation process."

I get that you were fiercely doing your best to stamp out misinformation and you were also letting people know just which companies are 'berry compliant' and 100% USA made, but your quote above is indicative of why people are now sceptical of this company.

They told you it had been extensively field tested, it was a revolutionary design, worked on by people who are experts, etc. Now after the review has come out, it is quite clear that their extensive testing - whatever that may have been - was not authentic, effective, meaningful or rigorous enough to justify the pack hitting the market.

The first field test we ever saw showed very clearly that the concerns with the size of the frame and harness were warranted. As far as I'm aware, most of the other big name packs have extensive testing before they release a new frame or model onto the market, where many people use them in a variety of circumstances and situations. That is what needs to be done in this market.

I mean let's be real here. How many animals do we think were packed out of the backcountry on the FORLOH pack/frame before this bag went to market? If it's more than half a dozen, I'd be surprised, and further to this; that moose head clearly shows the flaws in the frame length and design. The company told us that they figured out some issues and then fixed them before it went to retail, but the review suggests otherwise.

Please don't assume I or anyone else is really 'out to get' FORLOH. I hope they recover from this setback on Rokslide. It's not easy running a company in a market that is fiercely competitive I'm sure, and a lot of their other products seems to be receiving high praise. But, you coming into this thread and acting like the hostility for FORLOH is coming out of nowhere is missing the mark. I can't imagine Americans want this company to fail. Who wins there? If FORLOH is wanting to be part of the pack market, they will take everything in these recent threads on board. From the review, it is clear that they are already planning adjustments with the frames and belts. That should already tell you something.

 

[Rob5589]

I just went back through the forum and found the other threads and was going to link them here for you but I see you were very active in the 'FORLOH pack launched today!' thread so you should be very aware of the issues.

Interestingly, someone suggested that FORLOH charging as much as they are for this pack when it hasn't been extensively tested is crazy, and you said...

"I mean good lord...are you being purposefully obtuse? Have you not read anything that Forloh has posted in this thread? Do you enjoy throwing out ridiculous criticisms of companies for absolutely no reason? Does that give you pleasure?

Forloh has stated QUITE CLEARLY that they have field tested this thing extensively. The handful of pictures that they shared with us are from that field testing and evaluation process."

I get that you were fiercely doing your best to stamp out misinformation and you were also letting people know just which companies are 'berry compliant' and 100% USA made, but your quote above is indicative of why people are now sceptical of this company.

They told you it had been extensively field tested, it was a revolutionary design, worked on by people who are experts, etc. Now after the review has come out, it is quite clear that their extensive testing - whatever that may have been - was not authentic, effective, meaningful or rigorous enough to justify the pack hitting the market.

The first field test we ever saw showed very clearly that the concerns with the size of the frame and harness were warranted. As far as I'm aware, most of the other big name packs have extensive testing before they release a new frame or model onto the market, where many people use them in a variety of circumstances and situations. That is what needs to be done in this market.

I mean let's be real here. How many animals do we think were packed out of the backcountry on the FORLOH pack/frame before this bag went to market? If it's more than half a dozen, I'd be surprised, and further to this; that moose head clearly shows the flaws in the frame length and design. The company told us that they figured out some issues and then fixed them before it went to retail, but the review suggests otherwise.

Please don't assume I or anyone else is really 'out to get' FORLOH. I hope they recover from this setback on Rokslide. It's not easy running a company in a market that is fiercely competitive I'm sure, and a lot of their other products seems to be receiving high praise. But, you coming into this thread and acting like the hostility for FORLOH is coming out of nowhere is missing the mark. I can't imagine Americans want this company to fail. Who wins there? If FORLOH is wanting to be part of the pack market, they will take everything in these recent threads on board. From the review, it is clear that they are already planning adjustments with the frames and belts. That should already tell you something.

Well said. I would surmise that the company making significant changes to the pack after the criticisms of just 3 people here demonstrates that "extensive testing" is relative.

 

[Sherman]

I just went back through the forum and found the other threads and was going to link them here for you but I see you were very active in the 'FORLOH pack launched today!' thread so you should be very aware of the issues.

Interestingly, someone suggested that FORLOH charging as much as they are for this pack when it hasn't been extensively tested is crazy, and you said...

"I mean good lord...are you being purposefully obtuse? Have you not read anything that Forloh has posted in this thread? Do you enjoy throwing out ridiculous criticisms of companies for absolutely no reason? Does that give you pleasure?

Forloh has stated QUITE CLEARLY that they have field tested this thing extensively. The handful of pictures that they shared with us are from that field testing and evaluation process."

I get that you were fiercely doing your best to stamp out misinformation and you were also letting people know just which companies are 'berry compliant' and 100% USA made, but your quote above is indicative of why people are now sceptical of this company.

They told you it had been extensively field tested, it was a revolutionary design, worked on by people who are experts, etc. Now after the review has come out, it is quite clear that their extensive testing - whatever that may have been - was not authentic, effective, meaningful or rigorous enough to justify the pack hitting the market.

The first field test we ever saw showed very clearly that the concerns with the size of the frame and harness were warranted. As far as I'm aware, most of the other big name packs have extensive testing before they release a new frame or model onto the market, where many people use them in a variety of circumstances and situations. That is what needs to be done in this market.

I mean let's be real here. How many animals do we think were packed out of the backcountry on the FORLOH pack/frame before this bag went to market? If it's more than half a dozen, I'd be surprised, and further to this; that moose head clearly shows the flaws in the frame length and design. The company told us that they figured out some issues and then fixed them before it went to retail, but the review suggests otherwise.

Please don't assume I or anyone else is really 'out to get' FORLOH. I hope they recover from this setback on Rokslide. It's not easy running a company in a market that is fiercely competitive I'm sure, and a lot of their other products seems to be receiving high praise. But, you coming into this thread and acting like the hostility for FORLOH is coming out of nowhere is missing the mark. I can't imagine Americans want this company to fail. Who wins there? If FORLOH is wanting to be part of the pack market, they will take everything in these recent threads on board. From the review, it is clear that they are already planning adjustments with the frames and belts. That should already tell you something.

Every time I hear or read the word “obtuse” I think of Andy Dufresne getting two months in the hole.

 

[robby denning]

Ok all the gripes are starting to repeat themselves, then the back n forth he said/she said.

No one breaking any rules, but the problem has/is being addressed with the pack, so before adding another gripe, see if it’s been posted already.

FORLOH’s head product guy (@robert_cpo_forloh ) is on the thread so let’s not lose him in book-length (lol) posts that repeat what’s been said. Remember, we’re forum guys and like to read banter, not everyone is!

No problem with the gripes either, as that’s what can make for a great product/marketing.

Thanks!

 

[ForlohFamily]

Agree 100%.

My problem with FORLOH is that they seem to want to ride mostly on the "Made in the USA bandwagon", but not produce a superior product. When they get criticism, they always fall back on 'hey, it's Made in the USA' as of that alone resolves the problem or absolves them of having to produce top-notch quality.

Isn't FORLOH's manufacturing done in Puerto Rico? Yeah, technically part of the US (and certainly better than China), but they're charging a premium for their gear because it's "Made in the USA". I doubt they're paying the Puerto Rican's a great wage - probably not much more than someone in Vietnam - so you have to wonder why the premium price. I'm sure they'll pop on here and say the materials are sourced here and blah, blah, but I'm highly skeptical of their honesty at this point.

Hi! All of our fabric and materials are sourced in the US (mainland) and FORLOH's product team works with multiple factories in the US (mainland) to produce the newest technical outdoor gear possible.

 

[ForlohFamily]

Interesting; I wouldn't have guessed that. Although, I'd be curious to know how many people are actually making $7.26/hr. Austin's minimum wage was $15/hr in 2018, and technically, Austin is part of Texas.

Maybe FORLOH just really cares about Puerto Rico and they're willing to eat the cost of shipping materials over there to help those people rather than just mfr'ing here. A very generous gesture that they probably don't get enough credit for.

Thank you for supporting Made in America!