Fitness for altitude change comparison

[xcutter]

Read an interesting comment on training for the mountain country today. I would like to hear some opinions from experience on the mountain. I'm a flat lander who needs to train for the elk woods.

The comment I read was that " The distance you can run at 1500 feet above sea level is the distance you can walk at 10000 above sea level ".

Do you feel this is a fair comparison?

 

[5MilesBack]

Not for me. I'm not a runner, absolutely hate it....unless I'm chasing down a herd. So I would guess that I couldn't run very far on average, but I can hike all day long for the entire season at 10k+ feet.

 

[JG358]

Do you feel this is a fair comparison?

No.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I don't think it's accurate at all.

 

[ureyes]

My primary concern with conditioning is not getting muscle soreness/stiffness in day 2-3 of the hunt.

I will cycle 4 or 5 miles plus do some calisthenics a few times a week throughout the summer...then as the hunt draws closer, will hike a few times 4 miles or so with a loaded pack. That's pretty much it.

I tend to believe some folks are just naturally built for stamina. If you are not one of these people then extra conditioning may be necessary. Also depends what you are doing the other 350 days a year.

Im a flat landing smoker and haven't experienced any issues doing anything at 10k for 2 weeks out of the year.

Then again I ain't sitting around watching the tube a lot either.

The amount of conditioning required is based on individual needs and hunting style. Sore muscles could ruin a good hunt for me.

 

[xcutter]

Good comments.

I think I forgot to include part of comment I read today. I apologize for my mistake. I was trying to put this quote down from memory.

" The distance you can run at 1500 feet above sea level is the distance you can walk at 10000 above sea level without getting winded."

 

[Jason Snyder]

Even in different context, I still don't think it's accurate.

Just start getting in shape. Your first experience in dealing with altitude will greatly shape your future workouts.

 

[5MilesBack]

" The distance you can run at 1500 feet above sea level is the distance you can walk at 10000 above sea level without getting winded."

That doesn't change anything for me. You generally don't find many flat surfaces at 10k feet. So you're always climbing or dropping for the most part. I go a good portion of the day climbing up and down or around, and I'm in the worst shape of my life......but still better than most. But I still wouldn't want to run even a mile........at sea level, 1500 feet, or otherwise. When I get above 10k feet it's as if my adrenal glands are set to constant "on". When I'm at lower elevations, I never even feel them.

 

[xcutter]

Thanks for all the comments. I agree completely with everyone's comments. I thought it was a bunch of crap but I wanted to hear it from some experienced mountain hunters.

 

[bpotter]

I don't think you can train for altitude. I am convinced everyone from low altitudes reacts differently.
I can walk all day at 1K feet and only my feet are tired- hills, stairs or not. Takes me 3-4 days to function adequately above 8K and yet, some bull right through. It is worse as I get older.

Unless you are under 30, get in shape, really good shape. That will help but it still will be a rude awakening when some 20 year old native gets to rest waiting for you to catch up.

I did the Church a few years back. By the end of it was ok. The only flat spots I saw were used for a small corral and a tiny landing strip. Neither were close to where I was at.

 

[StrutNut]

From my limited experience there where 3 of us on my trip. One in good shape but a smoker, one in not so good of shape and did nothing to prepare, I was by far the heaviest but worked out pretty hard for 6 months or so before the trip. We camped at 9500 feet and hunted up from there. The heavier guy that didnt work out was a waste. He could go 50 feet without stopping 15 minutes for a breather. The smoker was pretty good at getting around although he grew up in Colorado Springs and hunted this area for 20 years. I moved as well as he did which surprised him as again, Im not a small guy but I got my cardio up and I am mentally tough. I also drank a lot of water even when I didnt really want any as well as plain rolaids (someone told me they help with altitude sickness). After the first 24 hours I really got used to it and had no problem going up and down the steep terrain. I guess my point is doing nothing is a poor choice. Get your cardio up and if your mentally strong, hey, you can handle it.

 

[Bar]

I can walk all day at 10,000ft, but wouldn't go far running at 1500ft. I'm 72, so you youngsters should be able to walk all day at high altitude. It's the steep climbs that will get you. Then when you descend it will wipe out your knees.

 

[Poser]

Its just really difficult to translate running into most mountain activity/fitness unless that activity involves actual running. Running and hiking with a pack, especially a heavy one, are very different tasks, so I wouldn't just run X amount of distance exclusively and expect to cover that same distance in the mountains with a pack on. I made that mistake back when I was younger and doing a lot of alpine climbing. For preparation for a alpine trip, I did nothing more than rock climbing (cragging) 3-5 days a week and long distance running (20+ mile runs) thinking that it would translate sufficiently. Under the weight of camping gear + climbing gear, I struggled to keep up with my partner whose preparation had consisted of regular weekend backpacking trips + rock climbing. No way the guy could run 20 miles, but he was mule when it came to steep switchbacks with heavy loads (thankfully, I was the slightly more skilled technical climber, so I carried my load when it came to technical climbs).

So, get in shape the best you can. If possible, I think that increasing your V02 max and bumping up your anaerobic threshold translates well from flatlands to the mountains since, with less oxygen and increased heart rate at altitude, whatever tasks you have prepared to do in the flatlands will require more blood and more oxygen to perform at altitude. By increasing your anaerobic threshold, you'll be able to function at the highest threshold of your aerobic state for a longer period of time. In the Fitness/Nutrition forum, there was a person with much rowing experience who recently posted that the key to efficient long distance rowing is riding the line between aerobic and anaerobic state. Since going from 1,000 feet to 10,000 feet will likely have you "riding the line" to perform the same task (hiking), if you can increase that threshold, you'll be in better shape for the mountains.

 

[Cory Arola]

Eat beets leading up to and if you can during the hunt. The benefit comes from the naturally occurring nitrates in beets, which are converted into nitric oxide in your body. Nitric oxide, in turn, helps to relax and dilate your blood vessels, improving blood flow and lowering blood pressure. One study I read said those who drank beet juice prior to exercise were able to exercise for up to 16 percent longer. The benefit is thought to also be related to nitrates turning into nitric oxide, which may reduce the oxygen cost of low-intensity exercise as well as enhance tolerance to high-intensity exercise. I also recommend keeping up with electrolytes, I use Wilderness Athlete hydrate and recover every morning and mid afternoon while doing strenuous activities. I have also found that wearing compression stockings greatly increase my endurance and recovery.

 

[bourbon]

Has anyone tried any of the altitude training masks?

http://www.trainingmask.com/

 

[GotDraw?]

I used to be an ultra marathon athlete and read up on that topic a good bit.

My 2 cents is that unless things have really changed, then altitude training masks are most likely a joke. You won't build red blood cells wearing a mask while you work out or run. Building red blood cells takes many hours a day living in a lower oxygen environment. What you will do is limit your ability to work out and train as hard as you can.

My understanding is that truly serious athletes sleep high and train low. That allows them to train in an oxygen rich environment which allows for maximum levels of exercise output. Then sleep at higher altitude.

I always snicker at the "tough guys" at the gym posturing around and wearing those things.

Just my 2cents

 

[Jason Snyder]

I used to be an ultra marathon athlete and read up on that topic a good bit.

My 2 cents is that unless things have really changed, then altitude training masks are most likely a joke. You won't build red blood cells wearing a mask while you work out or run. Building red blood cells takes many hours a day living in a lower oxygen environment. What you will do is limit your ability to work out and train as hard as you can.

My understanding is that truly serious athletes sleep high and train low. That allows them to train in an oxygen rich environment which allows for maximum levels of exercise output. Then sleep at higher altitude.

I always snicker at the "tough guys" at the gym posturing around and wearing those things.

Just my 2cents

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Jason Snyder]

So, get in shape the best you can. If possible, I think that increasing your V02 max and bumping up your anaerobic threshold translates well from flatlands to the mountains since, with less oxygen and increased heart rate at altitude, whatever tasks you have prepared to do in the flatlands will require more blood and more oxygen to perform at altitude. By increasing your anaerobic threshold, you'll be able to function at the highest threshold of your aerobic state for a longer period of time. In the Fitness/Nutrition forum, there was a person with much rowing experience who recently posted that the key to efficient long distance rowing is riding the line between aerobic and anaerobic state. Since going from 1,000 feet to 10,000 feet will likely have you "riding the line" to perform the same task (hiking), if you can increase that threshold, you'll be in better shape for the mountains.

All of you newbies to altitude would be well served to read this several times, then put it into practice.

Think solid base fitness, add in intervals and lactate threshold workouts.

 

[Cory Arola]

Has anyone tried any of the altitude training masks?

http://www.trainingmask.com/

They actually don't do much. At altitude there isn't less oxygen just less air pressure, meaning the O2 isn't being forced into the cells as well as it is at sea level. The mask doesn't simulate this therefore it doesn't improve anything. Someone is making a bunch of money off the altitude mask scam.

 

[Bar]

They actually don't do much. At altitude there isn't less oxygen just less air pressure, meaning the O2 isn't being forced into the cells as well as it is at sea level. The mask doesn't simulate this therefore it doesn't improve anything. Someone is making a bunch of money off the altitude mask scam.

Not exactly............The important effect of this decrease in pressure is this: in a given volume of air, there are fewer molecules present. This is really just another way of saying that the pressure is lower (this is called Boyle's law). The percentage of those molecules that are oxygen is exactly the same: 21%. The problem is that there are fewer molecules of everything present, including oxygen.

So although the percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere is the same, the thinner air means there is less oxygen to breathe.