First time layering - it went... ok

[srr5008]

Long time whitetail hunter here (PA if it matters). I've also done a couple first season rifle elk hunts in CO. Up until now, I've always worn a heavy parka, flannel shirt, and long johns for hunting. When whitetail hunting from a stand I add heavy bibs to that. Previously in CO we were able to drive to our base camp, so we had the ability to bring everything but the kitchen sink gear-wise.

Next year I'm doing a drop camp for first rifle. Given that we can't bring as much with us, I decided to try the layering systems I've been reading about. Today I was able to test out all my new clothing while doing some sneak hunting for whitetail in PA. Long story short, I was cold. It was 24 degrees, with 10-15 mph winds and a real feel of 14.

In the past it wasnt quite that cold on our elk hunts, but I'm aware it's a possibility. I was hoping to share my gear list and see where people could make suggestions for changes/improvements.

Up top I was wearing:
175 GSM merino wool (Minus 33)
Kings Camo performance fleece (comparable weight to the FL Klamath)
Pnuma Waypoint soft shell

For bottoms i wore:
175 GSM merino wool (Minus 33)
SKRE hardscrabble pants

As soon as I got outside I was chilly. Once I started sneak hunting I wasnt cold, but I wasn't warm either. The few times I was covering ground a bit faster I was warm enough.

When I stopped and stood for a few hours I added a Kings Down puffy (transition jacket) and a pair of zip on Stone Glacier Helio pants (fleece mid layer). That definitely helped, but again I wouldnt say that I was warm. But I wasn't uncomfortable either.

Should I add a heavier midlayer up top to help with getting cold? Swap any pieces of gear? My lower half wasnt too bad. I was cold enough that I was comfortable walking out with the puffy and fleece pants on. From what I've read most people dont wear their puffies while walking and the folks at SG assured me that I wouldnt want to walk with the fleece pants on.

Open to any suggestions!

 

[srr5008]

I should add that i started with midweight wool baselayers (245 gsm) and switched to the lightweight ones based on posts I've read here about heavier wool holding sweat/moisture.

 

[K_pem]

First thing I would consider is moisture management. Most the layers you bring aren't going to do you much good if you're slow moving and all wet underneath. I wear mesh merino base layers next to skin for that reason followed by something that will wick the little bit of moisture coming through away. I'd strongly consider them.

I would ditch your soft shell in lieu of an active insulation piece and a thin/light wind layer, if funds are tight you could opt to just put your rain shell over the top if you're moving slow enough or stationary but it won't breath as well or be as quiet if trying to use it while actively hunting (assuming you brought rain gear along), so I like to have a light wind layer to help trap in the heat/keep the wind at bay.

For bottoms I'm assuming you're saying you were wearing long merino bottoms AND the Helios; seems like that should have kept you pretty comfortable, unless of course you were mildly wet. Again, I would consider mesh merino base and you could still rock your Helio's over them.

If moisture was not a problem for you and you were still cold enough to justify hiking around in a puffy and all of your layers on bottom; then I would say it's cold enough for you to justify jumping up in base layer weight, provided that you're not making any of the above changes.

 

[Dave0317]

I think there is a few factors to consider regarding east vs west hunting styles, individual preferences, and a couple technique and mindset issues.

For a slow sneak/still hunt, you can definitely wear more insulation than most western hunters would wear while moving. Walking at a still-hunt pace on flat ground doesn’t generate much more warmth than sitting still. Especially if you are doing it right. In fact if I get warm while timber sneaking, that’s my cue to slow down more.

kind of like sleeping bags, some people can make a 15 degree bag work in 15 degree weather, and others will need a 0 bag to be comfortable below 30 degrees. Clothing can be equally variable depending on an individuals metabolism, body fat, or muscle mass.

Lastly, mindset and technique. I don’t expect to be “warm” on a windy 24 degree day, especially when you add the humidity in my area, vs the dryness out west. (Dry cold feels like 10 degrees warmer to me.) Being “not uncomfortable” is fine. If you want to be warm as a personal preference, nothing wrong with that either, just go ahead and wear the puffy and fleece pants.

There is also a mountain mindset of always wanting to start out pretty cold on your walk, so that you don’t overheat and sweat 15 minutes in. On a still-hunt/timber sneak, again that’s not really the same thing and not usually an issue.

 

[98XJRC]

Honestly your on the right track. Adding a wind layer would drastically improve your warmth though. I'm a PA hunter as well and it's felt like we've just been dealing with constant wind anymore. It doesn't matter how warm a piece of gear you are wearing is, if it doesn't have wind stopping capability you will loose heat and feel cool. I'm adding kuiu Katana's to my gear this year primarily for use as a wind layer over insulation, but also after being caught in the rain several times this season it became obvious I needed to add some to my system.

When moving (covering ground) while cold out (sub 30) I'll typically wear mid weight merino base layers and then a grid fleece or the new OV active midweight. I rarely put a heavier insulation layer on when doing so unless still hunting like you are talking about. Then like others have said if your starting to sweat it's your clue to slow down. There's a fine balance between moving slow enough to need the additional insulation vs moving to fast and needing to drop layers. The last thing you want to be doing is working up a sweat while moving as the moisture will make you cold once you stop.

 

[srr5008]

Thanks for the feedback so far!

I would ditch your soft shell in lieu of an active insulation piece and a thin/light wind layer, if funds are tight you could opt to just put your rain shell over the top if you're moving slow enough or stationary but it won't breath as well or be as quiet if trying to use it while actively hunting (assuming you brought rain gear along), so I like to have a light wind layer to help trap in the heat/keep the wind at bay.

I was wondering if I should go with something heavier than a soft shell (insulated). My jacket has a little bit of fleece in the body, but none in the sleeves. Just worried about being too warm when moving, I will have rain gear out west, but would prefer to wear them only if it's raining (those will make me sweat LOL).

I think there is a few factors to consider regarding east vs west hunting styles, individual preferences, and a couple technique and mindset issues.

For a slow sneak/still hunt, you can definitely wear more insulation than most western hunters would wear while moving. Walking at a still-hunt pace on flat ground doesn’t generate much more warmth than sitting still. Especially if you are doing it right. In fact if I get warm while timber sneaking, that’s my cue to slow down more.

I definitely think this is a factor. I hunt pretty hard (cover a lot of ground) hunting here in PA, but I don't move very fast. Looking back, I can remember sweating pretty bad when climbing hills in CO, but then I was back to moving pretty slow once I got to the elevation I wanted to hunt. As mentioned above, I am worried if I go with a heavier jacket I won't be able to dump heat when moving.

Honestly your on the right track. Adding a wind layer would drastically improve your warmth though. I'm a PA hunter as well and it's felt like we've just been dealing with constant wind anymore. It doesn't matter how warm a piece of gear you are wearing is, if it doesn't have wind stopping capability you will loose heat and feel cool. I'm adding kuiu Katana's to my gear this year primarily for use as a wind layer over insulation, but also after being caught in the rain several times this season it became obvious I needed to add some to my system.

My gear was pretty windproof. But I feel like the unlined sleeves in the jacket may have done me in. I don't think the wind cut through the jacket, but it certainly cooled down the temp of my exterior clothes, and I only had a lightweight base layer and thin fleece under that. On the fence between a heavier jacket, or an additional (heavier midlayer).