Holding windage for practice

[Erussell01]

Over the last couple years I have shot more 223 and 308 than I had the entirety of my life prior. I'm not a crazy high round count shooter but I've been really committed to weekly practice where I have been shooting at least a few rounds every week. It has been paying off in my ability to control varmints and predators around the farm nicely.


However

I STILL SUCK

specifically at windage holds and it's making me think I may need a different solution.

Currently the two rifles I shoot the most are savage axis, 223 and 308 both topped with burris optics that feature a bdc reticle since I'm not a good enough shooter yet to utilize something at a higher level. I have succesffuly made shots this year on coyotes and woodchucks out to 400 yards and I'm incredibly happy with the performance of my little 223 with a 73 eldm.

But this week I missed a coyote during a morning call session. I was super stable, prone shooting off my pack. Got a good yardage, the coyote came out at 187 yards and sat down to bark at me on the other treeline. I ranged him, got steady, checked the wind and held what I thought was enough. We had a 15 mph crossing wind coming from right to left. Not quite 90 degrees. I held on his right shoulder and watched my bullet impact the dirt behind him inches from his left side.

He scooted out of there and stopped at a little over 400. Quick range on him told me 405, I used my appropriate bdc mark to set elevation and doubled my windage hold and sent another one and this time hit the coyote, but unfortunately hit him in the back ham as he had turned broadside with his head to the righ.

Now I'm happy I got lead into that coyote. But had it been a game animal and not a maurauding coyote trying to steal chickens, I would have been very upset at myself. Is there an easier way to learn wind and or have it on a dope card?

The situation has me looking at another reticle option for burris- the e3. It appears to have roughly a 10-12 mph wind dot for the 223 73 eldm. Would this be a decent option?


Otherwise how can I practice and get a good "gauge" for wind calls with this rifle?

I intend to shoot a deer with it this fall. It will likely be 100 yards or less just due to the dentisty of trees and cover where I typically hunt so not likely going to need a wind call.

But I'm working on being a more proficient shooter and I hope you guys can help me.

 

[dieselchessy]

So at 200 yards. 15mph full value wind you held maybe 3-5 inches off center? Assuming a coyote is 7-10” wide facing you.
So you believe your bullet drifts -4” in that wind at 200 yards?

You said you were doing a call session, but then describe the coyote as “trying to steel chickens”. Were you using a chicken call sound?

 

[LongWayAround]

Get a scope that is subtended in mils.

The bc for a 73gr eld-m is .4, so you will hold 0.1 mil for every 4mph of cross wind per 100yd.

Your hold on that coyote at almost 200yd would have been about 0.8mil.

edit: made some assumptions about the shot conditions and punched it into 4dof. I got a wind hold of 0.6mil (4.3").

A mil at 200yd is 7.2" and 0.8 of that is 5.76", so you probably missed just off the edge. A rushed shot at 400, holding out in empty space in the scope was probably a fairly lucky hit.

I love my 6x swfa on my .223. It's a perfect match for me.

 

[LongWayAround]

So at 200 yards. 15mph full value wind you held maybe 3-5 inches off center? Assuming a coyote is 7-10” wide facing you.
So you believe your bullet drifts -4” in that wind at 200 yards?

You said you were doing a call session, but then describe the coyote as “trying to steel chickens”. Were you using a chicken call sound?

I think you may have mis-read.

He said the wind was right to left, he held right side and missed left.

From what I got out of 4dof, the wind drift would be about 4" at 0.6mil.

Edit: thought about it some more... If he was already holding ~4", it wouldn't make sense to drift another 4". Or his wind call was just wrong.

 

[EastHumboldt]

4” seems like a lot at 200 to me.? But I’m also an idiot about wind. Would it have been less with a 150 grain 7 mm out of a 7-08? Meaning, would a heavier bullet have less drift?

 

[LongWayAround]

4” seems like a lot at 200 to me.? But I’m also an idiot about wind. Would it have been less with a 150 grain 7 mm out of a 7-08? Meaning, would a heavier bullet have less drift?

Yes.

I entered 5000' 60° 2800fps.

If I only change the bullet to 150gr eld-x, the drift becomes 0.4mil. If I change the muzzle velocity to 2600fps, drift becomes 0.5mil.

 

[Ramem7mm]

If you get a new scope get it in first focal plane as well so you can use the reticle subtentions consistently.

 

[dieselchessy]

I think you may have mis-read.

He said the wind was right to left, he held right side and missed left.

From what I got out of 4dof, the wind drift would be about 4" at 0.6mil.

Edit: thought about it some more... If he was already holding ~4", it wouldn't make sense to drift another 4". Or his wind call was just wrong.

I think I read it correctly, and seem to have come to a similar conclusion as you. Im just wondering what the OP’s numbers were. We dont know launch speed ect…

I left the 400 part alone. They said they “doubled the hold”. So does that mean 8” or 16” to the OP?

 

[LongWayAround]

I left the 400 part alone. They said they “doubled the hold”. So does that mean 8” or 16” to the OP?

Minute-of-yote?

 

[Erussell01]

So at 200 yards. 15mph full value wind you held maybe 3-5 inches off center? Assuming a coyote is 7-10” wide facing you.
So you believe your bullet drifts -4” in that wind at 200 yards?

You said you were doing a call session, but then describe the coyote as “trying to steel chickens”. Were you using a chicken call sound?

No the farm I was on has had issues with the coyotes robbing chickens from the coop. They have lost enough that Tom, the owner asked me to double down so I am trying to oblige.

As far as how much it drifts- I'm not sure. I'm trying to learn to judge wind, and bullet drift and boy I just suck at it.

 

[Erussell01]

Get a scope that is subtended in mils.

The bc for a 73gr eld-m is .4, so you will hold 0.1 mil for every 4mph of cross wind per 100yd.

Your hold on that coyote at almost 200yd would have been about 0.8mil.

edit: made some assumptions about the shot conditions and punched it into 4dof. I got a wind hold of 0.6mil (4.3").

A mil at 200yd is 7.2" and 0.8 of that is 5.76", so you probably missed just off the edge. A rushed shot at 400, holding out in empty space in the scope was probably a fairly lucky hit.

I love my 6x swfa on my .223. It's a perfect match for me.

That makes sense and I'm certain you are right. I felt confident on the first shot and honestly was shocked when he didn't go down and instead started running. Luckily I got on the caller and he stopped for a dog bark to give me a second chance

 

[Erussell01]

I think you may have mis-read.

He said the wind was right to left, he held right side and missed left.

From what I got out of 4dof, the wind drift would be about 4" at 0.6mil.

Edit: thought about it some more... If he was already holding ~4", it wouldn't make sense to drift another 4". Or his wind call was just wrong.

Which it very very easily could be. I'm going off the wind data I had from the weather app that day and I am really really amateur at wind calling live in person

 

[Erussell01]

If you get a new scope get it in first focal plane as well so you can use the reticle subtentions consistently.

I'm having a hard time getting there. I'm not a good shooter compared to many on this forum. I'm shooting a ton, but I'm just not as good as I want to be in the long run. For me, the low cost of an optic like a burris that has done a great job for me on this rifle in particular and matches my primary hunting rifle makes it hard to switch. I'm a slow learned and the BDC reticle is simple for someone like me who doesn't have any business shooting beyond 400 yards on any animal. I mean cripes I misjudged the windage bad enough to miss a coyote at less than 200 yards.... i obviously need work. At least I'm working on real shooting positions and I'm burning enough ammo that my wife has asked that I stop shooting and take up something like gambling and strip clubs for hobbies instead....

 

[nm.otter]

If you get a new scope get it in first focal plane as well so you can use the reticle subtentions consistently.

...or a fixed mag. They're cheap, and you learn fast.

 

[Erussell01]

I think I read it correctly, and seem to have come to a similar conclusion as you. Im just wondering what the OP’s numbers were. We dont know launch speed ect…

I left the 400 part alone. They said they “doubled the hold”. So does that mean 8” or 16” to the OP?

I held right side of the coyotes shoulder as he was facing me. With the second shot I "doubled the hold" but in all reality I could have been inches more or less as it was hasty.

From my savage I'm not hitting box posted with a 73 eldm. I believe box posted is 2790 and when I borrowed my buddies crono I'm almost exactly at 2700 which is awesome because it matches with my 308 and a couple of my hunting loads so I'm getting better with drops since they're similar and the bdc is really close for both.

 

[Erussell01]

Minute-of-yote?

Well obviously not enough hold because I hit him in the ham and it wasn't where I was aiming. I believe my trigger press was decent but the whole thing was a fiasco

 

[Erussell01]

...or a fixed mag. They're cheap, and you learn fast.

I have still been searching for an swfa 6x but I haven't found one yet. I'm just a tiny bit hesitant to learn a whole new optic platform because I kind of enjoy having my "trainer" rifle match my "other rifle" haha

 

[nm.otter]

10x might work there?

 

[Erussell01]

10x might work there?

I'm scared of a fixed 10x for deer season in the timber.... am I a wussy?

 

[43.6N]

I STILL SUCK

Me too brother. Me too.

both topped with burris optics that feature a bdc reticle since I'm not a good enough shooter yet to utilize something at a higher level

You have identified a deficiency that would be greatly helped with a ffp mil based reticle.

The SWFA line of rifle scopes would be ideal for helping you overcome this deficiency.

If you are scared of the Fixed 10x. Consider the 3-9 or 3-15 powers. Unless you can find a fixed 6x.

Got a good yardage, the coyote came out at 187 yards and sat down to bark at me on the other treeline.

We had a 15 mph crossing wind coming from right to left. Not quite 90 degrees. I held on his right shoulder and watched my bullet impact the dirt behind him inches from his left side.

stopped at a little over 400. Quick range on him told me 405, I used my appropriate bdc mark to set elevation and doubled my windage hold and sent another one and this time hit the coyote, but unfortunately hit him in the back ham as he had turned broadside with his head to the righ.

223 73 eldm

Otherwise how can I practice and get a good "gauge" for wind calls with this rifle?

Let me introduce you to the idea of a “wind number.” It lets you be generally in the ballpark of an accurate wind call based on what you are experiencing at the moment of the shot. If you can estimate the wind, and you know your distance, you can make a few rough estimations on how much windage to hold in a ffp reticle.

With Any ffp reticle, you can be reasonably sure that your bullet will drift at a constant rate if subjected to a constant wind. With a mil based ffp reticle, that constant rate of drift is most easily understood since we can break it down to .1mil increments. The bullet you are using will inform you how much it can be expected to drift. This rate of drift is generally defined as the wind number.
-G1 BC of chosen bullet, multiply by 10 roughly equals your “wind number.”
- so 73gr ELDM g1 of 0.398x10=3.98 3.98mph. So call it 4mph.
- This means: this bullet drifts about 0.1 mil for every 100yds in a 90deg 4mph wind. Also means it drifts 0.2mil for every 100yds in an 8mph wind. And 0.3mil/100yds in a 12mph wind…0.4mil/100yds in a 16mph wind…etc.

-So shot 1 is 187yds (roughly 200yds). 12-16mph wind (so with our wind number of 4mph, we can break these down into multiples of 3 and 4).
This means that the bullet is going to drift between .6 and .8 mils down wind at this distance. With our mil scope we can actually plot out the difference between these two points in the reticle as our error or uncertainty. Basically we can feel confident that the bullet will land in between these two hash marks. This has created a bracket we can stick on either side of our target to give us the most likely chance of hitting our target.
-Second shot is 405yds. Same wind? So 12-16 mph breaks down into wind number multiples of 3-4. So every 100yds we drift between .3 and .4 mils. A little multiplication tells us our wind bracket is between 1.2-1.6mil. Again hold into the wind and bracket the vitals in between our two goal posts.