First Negligent Discharge.

[TaperPin]

All well made plans tend to go out the window when a little running is involved! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Formidilosus]

Yes the safety is off on the photos now because I have the firing pin spring released

Yes, having something inside the trigger guard to activate is a poor design, however the above is the root cause.
Not to get into a psychological or sub-conscious conversation, but the reason you (and everyone else) have this happen (safety off), is because for you it is a “I am done, I want to put my safety on” thing; instead of being incorporated into sub-conscious gun handling that has to be done as a part of a step process. There is zero reason that the safety should be off ever unless your face is in the stock and finger is on the trigger. There is no reason to drop the hammer and carry it like that or store it so. It will cause issues at some point again.

 

[huntnful]

Yes, having something inside the trigger guard to activate is a poor design, however the above is the root cause.
Not to get into a psychological or sub-conscious conversation, but the reason you (and everyone else) have this happen (safety off), is because for you it is a “I am done, I want to put my safety on” thing; instead of being incorporated into sub-conscious gun handling that has to be done as a part of a step process. There is zero reason that the safety should be off ever unless your face is in the stock and finger is on the trigger. There is no reason to drop the hammer and carry it like that or store it so. It will cause issues at some point again.

I genuinely thought you need to release the firing pin spring when storing? Is that just an old myth or something?

And you’re absolutely right about automatic safety usage.

I’m an avid shotgun shooter and the safety only ever comes off when I’m shouldering in the shotgun, and I put it on automatically when lowering the shotgun. Totally subconsciously.

I need to implement that with the rifle as well 100%

 

[Fowl Play]

Yes, having something inside the trigger guard to activate is a poor design, however the above is the root cause.
Not to get into a psychological or sub-conscious conversation, but the reason you (and everyone else) have this happen (safety off), is because for you it is a “I am done, I want to put my safety on” thing; instead of being incorporated into sub-conscious gun handling that has to be done as a part of a step process. There is zero reason that the safety should be off ever unless your face is in the stock and finger is on the trigger. There is no reason to drop the hammer and carry it like that or store it so. It will cause issues at some point again.

Just going to say you sent me down a rabbit hole of researching on this... cause I was always taught to store a rifle with the firing pin decocked to save the spring. I'm assuming you're saying that, that actually has no affect on the recoil spring and that you should not even go through that motion of decocking as it can bite you one day?

 

[huntnful]

Just going to say you sent me down a rabbit hole of researching on this... cause I was always taught to store a rifle with the firing pin decocked to save the spring. I'm assuming you're saying that, that actually has no affect on the recoil spring and that you should not even go through that motion of decocking as it can bite you one day?

I also thought the same thing. And actually hate doing it, because then I start the very first cycle needing to remember to flip the safety on right away, instead of it just being on.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I also thought the same thing. And actually hate doing it, because then I start the very first cycle needing to remember to flip the safety on right away, instead of it just being on.

I’ve always kept a rifle with the firing pin decocked because it’s not possible to have a live round in the chamber with the pin decocked and it’s easy to verify.

 

[Jason Snyder]

You do not need to drop the firing pin spring/hammer for storage. I carry my rifle with an empty chamber and the safety on.

Mine are stored with the bolt out and a trigger cable lock anyway.

 

[Mountneer]

Always a good idea to share the "post-mortem" analysis of any incident. Thanks for bringing it to mind.

 

[CMP70306]

There is a difference between an accidental discharge and a negligent discharge. Firearms are mechanical devices that can and do fail. This incident would definitely fall into the latter category though.


Terrible, terrible design feature to have the mag release inside the trigger guard. Get a new rifle.

Not really if it’s used correctly, that design specifically exists because of people bitching they accidentally dropped their mag or didn’t like the exposed paddles on the previous version. Only way to remove the external paddle is it integrate it into the trigger guard in some way.

 

[wind gypsy]

Only way to remove the external paddle is it integrate it into the trigger guard in some way.

Probably mostly true with AI pattern mags, but I’m sure someone could find a creative solution.

Tikka and browning offer options that have worked well in my experience with the release in front of the mag.

 

[CMP70306]

Probably mostly true with AI pattern mags, but I’m sure someone could find a creative solution.

Tikka and browning offer options that have worked well in my experience with the release in front of the mag.

Correct, if starting from scratch you could make a better mouse trap but if you want to get into the custom rifle space then 700 pattern and AICS mags are what brings the money.

 

[Formidilosus]

I genuinely thought you need to release the firing pin spring when storing? Is that just an old myth or something?

Just going to say you sent me down a rabbit hole of researching on this... cause I was always taught to store a rifle with the firing pin decocked to save the spring. I'm assuming you're saying that, that actually has no affect on the recoil spring and that you should not even go through that motion of decocking as it can bite you one day?

That is correct/ it is a complete myth and BS that it harms the rifle or spring in anyway, with it cocked and safety on.

Pulling the trigger to release the hammer/pin/spring is one of worst, if not- the worst, gun handling things that has come from the military.

I’ve always kept a rifle with the firing pin decocked because it’s not possible to have a live round in the chamber with the pin decocked and it’s easy to verify.

Think about it from an error stacking and probability perspective. You check the rifle to ensure it it empty (sometimes, maybe most of the time- but not 100% always), then habitually pull the trigger (almost always down, or up, or pointed somewhere- but not aimed at a target), to make sure the rifle is empty? You literally pull the trigger as a final check of whether it’s empty or not.

What other lethal instrument do you make safe by doing the very action that makes it lethal? It is a single point of failure- the one and only thing that is keeping the gun from going bang, is that there is nothing in the chamber. If you mess it up one time and one time only, you have a round being sent somewhere. @Ryan Avery is on video the first time we shot together explaining to me how this has never happened to him ever, and that it was silly- and ND’d a round right as he was saying it.

: Know the condition of the weapon at all times; you and you alone are responsible for it.

:Keep you finger straight and off the trigger, safety engaged until preparing to fire.

Safety usage should habitual and tied to the mechanical action of driving the rifle to the target with the intention to fire. And before your face can come off the rifle, or before your sights leave the target, the safety must be applied.

 

[*zap*]

negligent discharge.....

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

negligent discharge.....

 

[huntnful]

That is correct/ it is a complete myth and BS that it harms the rifle or spring in anyway, with it cocked and safety on.

Pulling the trigger to release the hammer/pin/spring is one of worst, if not- the worst, gun handling things that has come from the military.






Think about it from an error stacking and probability perspective. You check the rifle to ensure it it empty (sometimes, maybe most of the time- but not 100% always), then habitually pull the trigger (almost always down, or up, or pointed somewhere- but not aimed at a target), to make sure the rifle is empty? You literally pull the trigger as a final check of whether it’s empty or not.

What other lethal instrument do you make safe by doing the very action that makes it lethal? It is a single point of failure- the one and only thing that is keeping the gun from going bang, is that there is nothing in the chamber. If you mess it up one time and one time only, you have a round being sent somewhere. @Ryan Avery is on video the first time we shot together explaining to me how this has never happened to him ever, and that it was silly- and ND’d a round right as he was saying it.

: Know the condition of the weapon at all times; you and you alone are responsible for it.

:Keep you finger straight and off the trigger, safety engaged until preparing to fire.

Safety usage should habitual and tied to the mechanical action of driving the rifle to the target with the intention to fire. And before your face can come off the rifle, or before your sights leave the target, the safety must be applied.

Really appreciate the thorough response. I will 100% just start storing my rifles cocked, with the safety on. And just ensure they’re empty prior to storing.

Also really going to prioritize engaging the safety subconsciously every time before rifle is lowered from being shouldered or coming off target.

Never having an issue after 1000’s of rounds had certainly made me complacent in the usage of the safety and just putting it on after an event, or prior to loading in a controlled environment etc.

 

[huntnful]

negligent discharge.....

I’m definitely not too proud to call it negligent. It is what it is. Accidental was just what came to mind first.

I had a negligent discharge. I will do better. There are no excuses. Just happy to be able to live and learn and that there were no severe consequences because of it.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Yep negligence not accidental. I had a friend do something very similar and the rifle bullet missed our buddies head by mear inches. Never could be around him and firearms again.

Lesson for everyone Firearm safety rule number 1 is treat every firearm as it being loaded. I would add never depend on a safety being on or working properly. Always open your bolt. This decocking thing and safety confusion is frightening to read.

For the record I was negligent once with a shotgun pointed in a safe direction as a teenager.

 

[Bluumoon]

Thank you for sharing. Hard to swallow our pride so that others can learn from our mistakes.

 

[Fowl Play]

That is correct/ it is a complete myth and BS that it harms the rifle or spring in anyway, with it cocked and safety on.

Pulling the trigger to release the hammer/pin/spring is one of worst, if not- the worst, gun handling things that has come from the military.






Think about it from an error stacking and probability perspective. You check the rifle to ensure it it empty (sometimes, maybe most of the time- but not 100% always), then habitually pull the trigger (almost always down, or up, or pointed somewhere- but not aimed at a target), to make sure the rifle is empty? You literally pull the trigger as a final check of whether it’s empty or not.

What other lethal instrument do you make safe by doing the very action that makes it lethal? It is a single point of failure- the one and only thing that is keeping the gun from going bang, is that there is nothing in the chamber. If you mess it up one time and one time only, you have a round being sent somewhere. @Ryan Avery is on video the first time we shot together explaining to me how this has never happened to him ever, and that it was silly- and ND’d a round right as he was saying it.

: Know the condition of the weapon at all times; you and you alone are responsible for it.

:Keep you finger straight and off the trigger, safety engaged until preparing to fire.

Safety usage should habitual and tied to the mechanical action of driving the rifle to the target with the intention to fire. And before your face can come off the rifle, or before your sights leave the target, the safety must be applied.

100% understand what you are saying. I need to think about it some more after a lifetime of being taught one way.

I do not trust safety’s, even though I still always keep them on unless about to pull the trigger. My end of day/storage ritual is: pull mag, doubly confirm action is clear (pinky in chamber before close), point weapon in safe direction, drop hammer, reinstall mag. My thinking has always been “if I am going to let this weapon bounce around in the back of my truck, I’d rather be so confident there’s no round in the chamber that I dropped the hammer myself, rather than let a potential bounce do it”.

In the error stacking perspective. I’m not sure it’s safer If I negligently leave a live round in the chamber and then merely put it on safe.

 

[Southern Lights]

I believe that leaving a rifle cocked is not going to put a set in a modern spring.

With that said, I sill store my rifles de-cocked. For bolt action only: I do this by dropping the mag, opening the bolt, and visually inspecting the chamber. Then, with bolt open and mag out, I hold back the trigger when closing the bolt on the empty chamber. This will release the bolt without causing the firing pin to drop full force on the (presumed) empty chamber (point in safe direction).

The other thing I did was replace my hunting rifles with a Blaser R8 where the safety is the decocker and dropping the trigger group/mag automatically decocks the weapon as well. When the rifle is on safe, it is de-cocked. When you bring it to ready and remove the safety, you are only then cocking the weapon.

I think the Blaser system eliminates several classes of safety risks.

End Blaser commercial.

Glad to hear nobody was hurt. I have a friend that added a new drain hole to his floorboard in his truck due to a negligent discharge.