First Lite follows suit .....

[hodgeman]

Given where I live it's a complete non-issue for me. I have NO ability to try on anyone's hunting clothing without driving at least an hour and more like 2 hours... I buy almost 100% of my premium hunting gear online now. y.

I'm in the same boat... I own quite a bit of FL gear. No one within 350 miles carries it- I always just order it online anyway.

 

[MIKEYB]

The game has definitely changed, the consumer has a lot more options these days. Like said above the consumer no longer has to drive around or go home to research on their computer. Within seconds your on google viewing all retailers that carry said products possibly buying the product your holding from an online retailer while at a B&M. There is more incentive to buy online, sites like active junky that will kick back money to your account.

Plus with a little knowledge of how the big retailers operate and how they pressure manufactures on price points and what not your a fool if your buying at Msrp. I have a personal rule to not unless I need it in a hurry. Its got to be 20%+ to grab my attention.

The consumer is smarter and has better tools. while many of us gear junkies are still on tight budgets and doing our best to stretch our dollar and get the most for it. If companies are not following consumer/competition trends and adapting they are doomed.

I admire the innovation Amazon is bringng to the table, you see many trying to keep up.

 

[Broomd]

It's really hard to imagine much of anything in the brick and mortar world surviving anymore. I've used Amazon, like most, I Like low prices, but at what cost?

It's sad to see this stuff happening everywhere.

 

[Dobermann]

I'm hoping that with this change in the 'external' direction, FL can have a good look at some 'internal' issues. Some of the things I'd like to see changed are:

- More accurate customer service. I've been told incorrect info direct from FL on more than one occasion, including a strong recommendation for a pant size that ended up being 6 inches too big! Based on the recommendation, I bought multiple pairs of pants, only to have them not fit. Given I'm on the other side of the world, returning them simply wasn't viable.
- More timely customer service - and which answers all the relevant questions. I've sometimes waited days for reply emails, and often single-liners that don't answer what I asked. If I'm going to drop more than a grand up-front, and expect to have a long-term 'relationship' with a company, I expect more than this.
- Better QC: I ordered one item direct from FL that had a QC issue so obvious that even a cursory glance would spot it. Hard to understand how something like this could get through a strong QC system.
- Keeping inventory in stock. Hopefully this will be easier if they'll be fulfilling most of the orders. While their overseas market might not be high, FL need to understand that some of their market is overseas - and we don't buy on the US cycle. No doubt there are also people in the US who don't buy their gear right before season, but have to purchase it as they can afford it throughout the year, want to test it on scouting trips, and so on. If it's on your website, keep it in stock. Don't become like K**u and piss people off, or keep us waiting for months.
- Review pricing: some FL is priced at higher rates than comparative items from other brands, especially high-end hiking and climbing brands. I get that hunting gear is boutique, and some of those other companies benefit from having a larger market, but I often feel like I'm paying a price premium just because I want to support FL ... and I like Fusion!
- Sorting out sizing. I'm still not sure if the sizing on gaiters has been fixed, so felt like I was taking a gamble when ordering some recently. Sizing should really reflect what's in a company's own description - and sizing chart. And pants need to be sized with an adequate 'crotch length' - as are hiking pants - to factor in that they need to be worn at the natural waist, not the hips, as that's where a pack belt needs to go. All my FL pants, sized correctly in every other way for me, give me a 'wedgie' when worn at the natural waist ... and I'm not over-tall.

If FL happens to read this, know that FL is pretty much all I wear and I hope to continue to support the company. So the above is offered in the spirit of helping with this new direction, and not as a bash or winge fest.

Keep making quality. Keep experimenting. Keep testing before bringing to market (rather than vice versa, like some companies.) Keep supporting public lands. Keep doing periodic sales that make your gear more achievable for some of us. And keep listening to us.

 

[Kevin Dill]

I personally would like to see these dedicated DTC companies offer return shipping discounts for exchanges due to sizing or other issues. It is SO easy for X-company to include or issue (via email) a return shipping label with FedEx, UPS, etc. I can cite several cases where I've contacted customer service (Cabela's for example) and been issued a return label. My replacement item was shipped as soon as their system noted my return item was on its way back to them. No-hassle returns are part of the online shopping experience with excellent companies, and the ones that make it the easiest will usually win the sale.

Companies like KUIU aren't handling the physical movement and shipping of items anyway. It's done by a fulfillment company which specializes in inventory management and shipping. But when I need a solid color merino or soft-shell I don't go to KUIU. I usually default to LL Bean or Orvis because they routinely include an easy-return label which greatly reduces the hassle factor....and I am ALL about less hassle.

 

[ChrisA]

Kinda like I've been looking for H4350 for nearly a year online, at local gun shops, local large outdoor retailers, and a local small reloading shops. I did make stops specifically to see if they had any.

Just found out Midsouth had 8 lb jugs in stock so I bought my 2 jugs limit.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Man a lot of anti kuiu model dudes about to eat crow...especially on pricing


Not surprising to see, seeing the big outdoor clothing mfg’s shifting to the same model. Specialty stores are fading quickly, very sad to see.

 

[Kevin Dill]

So do First Lite, Sitka, KUIU and Kryptek own and operate their manufacturing facilities? I already know the answer in some of these cases. Most outdoor clothing manufacturers employ cut-and-sew companies to create their offerings. LL Bean doesn't have an LL Bean factory sewing LL Bean hunting clothes. It's all contractual work and mainly sourced from other areas of the globe. The goal is efficiency which converts to profits. Less efficiency = lower profits = compensatory price increases. The back side of the DTC equation is product handling and distribution/shipping by third parties. Many companies operate in small spaces and leave the warehousing to a contract company. The general idea is some companies don't build or distribute their products with their own facilities and labor.

The DTC thing is as old as Sears Roebuck or older. Paper catalogs have become websites. Sales fliers are now email blasts. Print advertising has been overshadowed by web ads and marketing found everywhere online. Sponsors and advertisers reach us on Rokslide and in MANY cases it's a DTC model even if we don't know it. Eliminating the various tiers of marketing, distribution and sales is where we are going. Manufacturers simply don't need retail sales in many cases....there are so many ways to reach the customer and supply them directly via the web.

 

[Phil4]

Love how they are still keeping with select retailers like Amazon...like they need anymore business...SMH

Amazon is just an outlet for retailers (in this case, First Lite themselves) to reach the masses. Amazon doesn’t buy the product from them they just wet their beak a little on the sales.

Should be interesting to see how this goes for them.


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[AdamW]

It's really hard to imagine much of anything in the brick and mortar world surviving anymore. I've used Amazon, like most, I Like low prices, but at what cost?

It's sad to see this stuff happening everywhere.

There will always (hesitate to use that word) be a need for brick and mortar. The only thing faster than next day shipping is right-now pick up. Essentials, home staples, boutique type stores that find a niche, there will always be those. I remember when shopping at a local farmer's market was an issue for some because it was one of the only times they ever needed to remember to carry cash in a world transitioning to debit cards. Not a problem any more, Larry's Turnips takes cards on his iphone. The seller adjusted to the market.

The overhead that brick and mortar stores take on, while still only carrying what a small percentage of the shoppers are looking for is impossible to compete with. That paired with (let's be honest here) the consumer often knowing more about the products they are buying (through research online, etc.) than the person selling them, other than convenience for needing it now it's hard to justify burning up half a day to hunt around for an item you're looking for. We have a really well stocked local outdoor shop and less than half the time do they have what you're looking for. It's more of "Oh, you need a backpacking boot, here are the few we carry, which one do you like?" Same with a stove or anything else. Retail is a tough business to run I have no doubt.

For niche gear like FL, this model probably makes sense and is likely a very small part of any brick and mortar store's business.

 

[Kevin Dill]

I should relate that I had a friend who owned a treestand manufacturing business. He built everything himself in his own shop, and then did the boxing/shipping. One day he told me how excited he was to have received an enormous order for his most popular stand....to be carried by Quality Farm & Fleet. Of course he priced downward to sell many stands and he worked hard. The next order was bigger and he was amazed: amazed at the amount of investment, effort and materials required. This went on until he realized QFF was beginning to own and control his business. He couldn't supply the occasional buyer or small shop wanting ten units. He lost profitable sales to meet a lower profit quota. He finally cut the cord before it became his only lifeline. He told me later he made as much after-sale profits going with less volume and reasonable pricing in a strategy which avoided the big retail markets. Classic niche company.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Mmmm. Interesting.

I like first lite but I also like to try stuff on before I buy. That has probably led to a bit more Sitka in my gear pile lately.

As far as the kuiu model, I do think you get more gear value for the $$$ based on the half dozen things I own. For instance, I think the $140 kuiu Attack pants are in the same league with the $170 firstlite guide pants. Some will prefer one over the other but the 20% list price difference makes me feel like the attacks are a better value if everything else was equal. I will be keen to see if First Lite adjusts pricing to pass on a portion of savings to the customer.

 

[NorseNW]

I just ordered some shoes from an online retailer that I thought had a good model. Free shipping to you. Free shipping on exchanges. $6.95 "restocking" fee for a return. I would do this all day long to get the right fit. As someone mentioned earlier I've played the drive 40 minutes to the local retailer to find they don't have what I wanted anyway. 40 minutes back, gas, blah blah blah. Just not sure how feasible the above mentioned format is depending on size of company

 

[boom]

bottom line. if it is a good product, people will buy it.

i bet 1% of us could walk over to Kifaru..and collectively if Kifaru was a Harley we could suck start it.

 

[Obi-wanshinobi]

It's a good move for them. Hopefully we see lower prices because of it.

 

[jm1607]

Bummer.

I was bummed about losing ASAT. Now I'm bummed about not being able to buy from my favorite dealer.. Feel bad for them too..

If prices go down I would be shocked. Kuiu's prices never went down like they promised. But FL isn't Kuiu either, so I guess time will tell.

Unless some new insane technology comes out I'm pretty much done with FL. I have a good stockpike of ASAT anyway and until it starts falling apart I'm good. Maybe some new companies will emerge in the meantime.. Hopefully someone will pickup an ASAT contract too, there's too much of a cult following for it to not happen..

 

[cuerro viejo]

Bummer.

I was bummed about losing ASAT. Now I'm bummed about not being able to buy from my favorite dealer.. Feel bad for them too..

If prices go down I would be shocked. Kuiu's prices never went down like they promised. But FL isn't Kuiu either, so I guess time will tell.

Unless some new insane technology comes out I'm pretty much done with FL. I have a good stockpike of ASAT anyway and until it starts falling apart I'm good. Maybe some new companies will emerge in the meantime.. Hopefully someone will pickup an ASAT contract too, there's too much of a cult following for it to not happen..

Why would kuiu’s Prices go down, they where direct from the get go? They didn’t go to a cheaper facility they went and pre bought more production capacity from a larger top tier factory. They did discount some of thier high volume products As promised.

 

[Trial153]

I think it’s important that they, first Lite, get the pricing and shipping correct before this comes to fruition. If they lower the prices without accounting for the amount of shipping and return issues that previously where handled by retailers....They might find themselves making a price increase to keep their margin. Doing that to close on the heels of this move can hurt them.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Amazon is just an outlet for retailers (in this case, First Lite themselves) to reach the masses. Amazon doesn’t buy the product from them they just wet their beak a little on the sales.

Should be interesting to see how this goes for them.


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Incorrect, Amazon is also a retailer. In fact about to be the biggest retail buyer out there. They buy wholesale from the levi’s, North Face, Under Armor, Columbia’s Etc

Ironically thier retail division competes against thier third party division. Third party is in a lot of ways a close out/over stock platform for Brick and motar retailers. It can really mess up map pricing.

 

[Phil4]

Incorrect, Amazon is also a retailer. In fact about to be the biggest retail buyer out there. They buy wholesale from the levi’s, North Face, Under Armor, Columbia’s Etc

Ironically thier retail division competes against thier third party division. Third party is in a lot of ways a close out/over stock platform for Brick and motar retailers. It can really mess up map pricing.

You are correct in those cases. Depends on the brand.


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