First Lite follows suit .....

[durangobrad]

If I cant try the shit on, then im not buying it. its as simple as that. Dumb move if you ask me. Reminds me of something Kuiu would do. Use your dealers to push the product and help spread the word. Then dump them.

To each their own, but where I live I can try the stuff on anywhere close by so all I do is order online. If it doesnt fit send it back fro a different size or return it all together. I mostly use online dealers with free exchange and returns, so no big deal.

 

[bivouaclarry]

If I cant try the shit on, then im not buying it. its as simple as that. Dumb move if you ask me. Reminds me of something Kuiu would do. Use your dealers to push the product and help spread the word. Then dump them.

So constructive. When is the last time you rolled into a retailer with zero knowledge of the mega$$$$ new hunting jacket/pants/backpack you were going to buy? This forum is a prime example of people doing their research before parting with their hard earned money! Why should I pay a retailer +20 to 40% so I can go grab something off the rack? They are adding no value to earn that money.

Purchasing a bow? Something else technical that requires education, service, fit? I am willing to pay the markup to receive those services. But when I know as much or more than the retailer about the product I am going to buy, I am not paying markup. I applaud First Lite's move as long as it comes with the requisite price adjustment. They are acknowledging that their customers are smart and care about saving money versus off the shelf convenience. I would expect sales to increase if they aggressively price their products.

 

[Trial153]

I wouldnt hold my breath for a price adjustment. ...lets see if i am proved wrong.

 

[Stwrt9]

While i agree there needs to be a price adjustment. Us consumers might not see anything significant. I would think that we will see a savings in something like free shipping and returns which we don't see now from First Lite unless they are running a promo for free shipping. I would think that they will eat that cost as a cost of going direct to consumer. but who knows Kuiu still rips customers off with shipping and especially returns! It really hurts sending something across the country back that doesn't fit. Time will tell.

 

[JigStick]

Businesses make decisions based on many different factors. And who am I to know how their books look. Theres a few reasons I feel the way I do.

First...it pisses all over the small business owners who "took a shot" stocking product from a new company with no idea of how it would sell. Footing the bill, taking the risk, elbow rubbing with customers, etc. All those business owners who help grow First Lite its a hell of a way to say "thank you".

Second....how valuable is YOUR time? I value my time pretty high. Waiting a few days for shipments to get to me, only to find out the size isn't true, or it doesn't allow free movement, or there is a defect in the product, only to have to repackage the merchandise back up, waste gas driving to the post office, spend more of my time to get it back in the mail....all to wait again for an exchange. Time wasted, money wasted, headache, hassle. Why go through all of that when I could go try on some Sitka, Cabelas, etc gear off the rack and ensure I walk out with what works...in a timely fashion and without wasted money and headache. Just saying....

Id rather spend my time with my wife, kids, or out hunting or fishing than running back and forth to the post office

 

[huntaholic123]

To each there own. I typically don’t waste to much time waiting for a package. Obviously if what I want is Sitka, cabelas, or other brands then I’ll drive to the store. When I want something like FL, Kryptek, Kuiu I take a risk and order it. If it doesn’t fit I took a risk. Not a big enough reason to not use a company that makes a great product. I’m not a huge FL guy but I do all of my shopping online when I can catch a sale. I waste more time driving to a store and dealing with crowds and products not in stock. It’s all personal preference. Your opinion is that, yours. Again I can’t imagine FL had a plan of “pissing” all over the dealers who gave them a shot.

 

[IdahoElk]

While i agree there needs to be a price adjustment. Us consumers might not see anything significant. I would think that we will see a savings in something like free shipping and returns which we don't see now from First Lite unless they are running a promo for free shipping. I would think that they will eat that cost as a cost of going direct to consumer. but who knows Kuiu still rips customers off with shipping and especially returns! It really hurts sending something across the country back that doesn't fit. Time will tell.

How is Kuiu ripping customers off by charging them shipping? other than amazon who do you buy high end outdoor gear from that pays for shipping both ways? does Kifaru offer free shipping both ways when you buy from them? Not trying to argue but I say lets wait and see what First Lite does.

 

[dotman]

How is Kuiu ripping customers off by charging them shipping? other than amazon who do you buy high end outdoor gear from that pays for shipping both ways? does Kifaru offer free shipping both ways when you buy from them? Not trying to argue but I say lets wait and see what First Lite does.

FL didn’t but vendors like S&S Archery did and they give members a nice discount on everything they sell.

 

[sneaky]

They probably didn't plan to do this to their dealers, but, they did. There's no other way to look at it. Sure, it should help their bottom line, but when customers roll up into their old dealers and ask for a recommendation do you think FL will be the first one they give? Probably not.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[IdahoElk]

FL didn’t but vendors like S&S Archery did and they give members a nice discount on everything they sell.

Yeah,they're great,Blackovis does free shipping to you also,love them.

 

[unclericco]

I ordered my first set of FL about a month ago. I learned about the sizing weirdness on this forum and youtube videos. All of the 4 pieces i ordered fit good so just do a little homework and you should probably be fine without trying it on

 

[Trial153]

mail order even with returns and excahnges is way less time consuming then traveling to a brick and mortar store. I can click and ship right from my office, print the label and never see the inside of a post office. Also i make sure return policies are clear and if a size is in question i just purchase both sizes and keep the one that fits better. The other gets retunred. I doesnt take 10 minutes for me to print a lable and Schedule a package pick up.

 

[Kevin Dill]

A consideration for all companies marketing to sportsmen is how best to reach the customer and get product to them. Utilizing retailers with physical stores is great for those sportsmen who live within short distance of them. But how many potential customers across America don't live within an honest hour's drive from...let's say...a First Lite dealer? How many of us sporting types live in rural USA or in very small towns with zero access to retail sources for FL, Benchmade, Sitka, Arcteryx, Zamberlan, and so on? A company like KUIU has potential instant sales to anyone with a phone and/or data connection...plus a delivery address. Combine that with competitive pricing and it makes a lot of marketing sense to go direct. Recall the days when the only way to buy anything was through retail? You had to either visit a store somewhere, or select from a retailer's catalog and then call or mail in an order. Talk about inefficient.....

Now we're seeing major manufacturers make their products available both directly and through retail points of sale. I think I can see a trend for that to increase. This runs opposite to many years ago when retailers would scream if a manufacturer (or wholesaler) did any retail sales. Today retailers are basically competing with their product manufacturers for some of the same customers. You can buy a Seek Outside tipi from SO, or you can go to Schnee's and get it. Having choices is great.

There's no doubt in my mind that going direct-only will cost FL some retail sales, but I think that's a cost they've considered. In the end they'll streamline their product movement and availability, leading to less hassle, more sales and greater end profitability. I personally think KUIU's success hasn't gone unnoticed and some competitors will emulate the things KUIU is doing.

 

[Stwrt9]

How is Kuiu ripping customers off by charging them shipping? other than amazon who do you buy high end outdoor gear from that pays for shipping both ways? does Kifaru offer free shipping both ways when you buy from them? Not trying to argue but I say lets wait and see what First Lite does.

You can find free shipping being offered by quite a few vendors with any reasonable search. So yeah if their vendors can afford the free shipping First Lite direct surely can as they are making the most profit selling direct.
Kuiu is in the same boat they tout how much they are saving the consumer yet they don't offer free shipping without a particular promo they have going on at the time. At the same time i can find just about every competitor with a quick search and have free shipping. What hurts is you have no way of trying stuff on yet you get stuck paying shipping both ways. It's not a perfect system is all i'm saying.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Just to be clear, my post isn't in any way argumentative....

There is no free shipping in reality. Any company offering it is simply burying the costs in their product pricing. Free shipping and free returns are easy but we're paying for them without seeing it. I endorse them (with limits) by the way, but I know everyone will pay somewhat more for the convenience. If FL charges $4 more per garment across the board we likely won't scream but such a charge would help offset 'free' shipping. Free returns...in my opinion...should only be for size adjustments or exchanges. An unrestricted "free returns" policy seems like it would bring abuse and many headaches as people try things and return them for the simplest of reasons. No easy or comprehensive answers for sure.

 

[Stwrt9]

Just to be clear, my post isn't in any way argumentative....

There is no free shipping in reality. Any company offering it is simply burying the costs in their product pricing. Free shipping and free returns are easy but we're paying for them without seeing it. I endorse them (with limits) by the way, but I know everyone will pay somewhat more for the convenience. If FL charges $4 more per garment across the board we likely won't scream but such a charge would help offset 'free' shipping. Free returns...in my opinion...should only be for size adjustments or exchanges. An unrestricted "free returns" policy seems like it would bring abuse and many headaches as people try things and return them for the simplest of reasons. No easy or comprehensive answers for sure.

Kevin, I'm with you, I think there are valid points all across the board and we all will just have to wait and see as this plays out. I think this is going to be a great thing for First Lite moving forward and hopefully us as consumers see some benefits. It does suck big time for all the vendors who worked hard to push their products but clearly something wasn't working and they saw a need for change.
Josh

 

[cuerro viejo]

You can find free shipping being offered by quite a few vendors with any reasonable search. So yeah if their vendors can afford the free shipping First Lite direct surely can as they are making the most profit selling direct.
Kuiu is in the same boat they tout how much they are saving the consumer yet they don't offer free shipping without a particular promo they have going on at the time. At the same time i can find just about every competitor with a quick search and have free shipping. What hurts is you have no way of trying stuff on yet you get stuck paying shipping both ways. It's not a perfect system is all i'm saying.

Free shipping is baked into costs. schnees is a perfect example, they pay the shipping to you but not to return to them. Roughly $50 bucks one way.

If you buy direct from a company that also sales wholesale and don’t pay shipping it’s because, they have a 200% markup at that time. it’s thier MAP

 

[durangobrad]

Businesses make decisions based on many different factors. And who am I to know how their books look. Theres a few reasons I feel the way I do.

First...it pisses all over the small business owners who "took a shot" stocking product from a new company with no idea of how it would sell. Footing the bill, taking the risk, elbow rubbing with customers, etc. All those business owners who help grow First Lite its a hell of a way to say "thank you".

Second....how valuable is YOUR time? I value my time pretty high. Waiting a few days for shipments to get to me, only to find out the size isn't true, or it doesn't allow free movement, or there is a defect in the product, only to have to repackage the merchandise back up, waste gas driving to the post office, spend more of my time to get it back in the mail....all to wait again for an exchange. Time wasted, money wasted, headache, hassle. Why go through all of that when I could go try on some Sitka, Cabelas, etc gear off the rack and ensure I walk out with what works...in a timely fashion and without wasted money and headache. Just saying....

Id rather spend my time with my wife, kids, or out hunting or fishing than running back and forth to the post office

Dude, you should probably stop wasting time waiting for shipment to get you. That is definitely a lot time that could be spent better. You can do practically anything in the meantime and when you come home, "bam" there is a package on your doorstep, zero time wasted.

Second, keep the packaging it came with and if it doesn't fit or your don't like it a couple pieces of tape and its ready to go.

Also, don't spend time waiting for exchanges, you can also do things in the meantime like my example above.

 

[Trial153]

And in store exchange or return is way more time consuming and then a Mail order exchange. And if I'm really in a rush I could just Place a new order for the correct size and do a return on a product I already have.

 

[Kevin Dill]

I like the way some companies offer a no-hassle return. Every order arrives with a pre-printed / prepaid return label. All you do is repackage the item and apply the label...then drop it for shipment. A relatively low charge is applied (to your card) when they receive and process the return. In many cases of garments, companies like LL Bean, Bauer, and Orvis use reusable shipping bags which makes a return even easier.

If I spend money online to buy premium gear and need to return something, I am still better off paying shipping both ways versus driving to my nearest retailer... considering the time and cost of doing it. I'm not saying I enjoy paying for shipping. I'm saying I really dislike having to drive about 2 hours to a good retail location. Even when I get there I'll guarantee you I won't see the entire product line of say Sitka or Filson. Nor will there be any assurance they have the size I want. So for me a trip to a retailer is probably a bigger dice-roll than an online purchase with the possible need to return something. The online and direct-to-consumer models are a real blessing for guys like me who live far from any metropolitan area or significant retailer of quality gear....which Walmart decidedly is not.