First Lite follows suit .....

[sneaky]

I don't understand, is shopping online bad to you? I'd love to shop locally but refuse to pay 15%-30% more + sales tax for something I can go online and get way cheaper with free shipping. Isn't this the reason First Lite is doing this, cut out the middleman?

As someone who used to own a brick and mortar archery shop, yes, it can be bad. I couldn't tell you how much time I spent on gear with customers only for them to go and buy online without giving me the chance to price match. My prices were always at MAP anyways, MSRP(MountainStatesRetailPricing) was a new thing to me until I moved west. I can see why guys out here shop deals, but NO ONE back east charges MSRP for anything. There's too much competition. I think if someone is just using a brick and mortar store to try out gear with no intentions if purchasing from them, they need to be upfront about that when they walk in, that way the owner or employee doesn't waste their time. Even now, when I go into any archery shop just to check it out I ALWAYS buy something. They aren't there to cater to tire kicking internet shoppers.

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[LandYacht]

I don't understand, is shopping online bad to you? I'd love to shop locally but refuse to pay 15%-30% more + sales tax for something I can go online and get way cheaper with free shipping. Isn't this the reason First Lite is doing this, cut out the middleman?

Sadly this is what is going to kill retail in our communities. You’re not just paying more for the clothes, you’re paying for the service that comes with it. The heat and lighting in the store. The ability to have a conversation and build a relationship in the community.

If you think that you won’t be paying sales tax on internet purchases for much longer that’s a pipe dream. Colorado has already started and I’m sure there are other states already doing the same thing. When the tax revenue dries up at one source the system adapts.

Look around your town and take a mental snap shot, because if the mentality that saving 10%-20% continues, our towns are going to consist of restaurants, Fed-Ex, and government buildings. It costs money to keep lights on and heat a building. Even more money to pay an employee to open the store and even more to pay Uncle Sam after the employee has been paid. Your neighbor that works at the local sporting goods store has to pay his mortgage at his house just like we all do. Saving $10 because you can get it cheaper is going to cost us all far more in the long run. Business has to adapt for sure, but don’t be the guy that checks something out locally and then buys it from a source that doesn’t have these same overhead costs after you walk out the door.

It’s a totally different thing to not give your patronage to a business because of crappy service.

I know that times are changing and this mode is quite attractive. Though prices should really be cut in half and that’s rarely the case when this direct to consumer model is followed. That’s a whole different topic than supporting local businesses, so I’ll get off my soap box. In the end we all vote with our dollars and that’s what will dictate how we are presented with our retail opportunities.


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[sneaky]

I don't understand, is shopping online bad to you? I'd love to shop locally but refuse to pay 15%-30% more + sales tax for something I can go online and get way cheaper with free shipping. Isn't this the reason First Lite is doing this, cut out the middleman?

First Lite is doing it to boost their bottom line. That's their right as a business. I've moved away from their gear because I've found more durable gear, FL lasts a little longer out west, but in the South it gets shredded pretty quick.

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[sneaky]

If you have an Amazon shipping center in your state, you are supposed to pay taxes on any purchases you made through Amazon for the year. Online sales tax is coming, the govt can't afford to lose that revenue.

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[bivouaclarry]

A relationship with Amazon would signal First Lite is going to use them for fulfillment for sure, sales perhaps. Amazon wet's their beak on inventory storage, pick/pack/ship, a % on the return. Plus you are stuck with Amazon's item return rules if you use them. If selling items on Amazon, they take a % of the sale plus their standard credit card discount. Being based out of Sun Valley ID, they are certain not to run a warehouse from that location. Boise or Twin Falls is a possibility. My guess is they do not want to learn the distribution game just yet and this would ease their transition. To be competitive with KUIU though, they will have to run their own pick/pack/ship at some point. Amazon takes a big chunk when you do the math.

 

[dreamingbig]

If you want FL to stick around you need to embrace this move. The traditional retail model is dying. Outside of the inconvenience of not being able to try on first consumers will mostly win.

You will get lower prices while the company will get much needed margin back to spend on R&D and be quicker to market with new products.


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[sneaky]

If you want FL to stick around you need to embrace this move. The traditional retail model is dying. Outside of the inconvenience of not being able to try on first consumers will mostly win.

You will get lower prices while the company will get much needed margin back to spend on R&D and be quicker to market with new products.


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If they're going to be quicker to market then their supply chain is going to have to change big time. Mid summer get-it-while-It's-in-stock isn't going to fly anymore.

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[dreamingbig]

If they're going to be quicker to market then their supply chain is going to have to change big time. Mid summer get-it-while-It's-in-stock isn't going to fly anymore.

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I guess I was coming at it from this angle... they can be more agile with changes if they don’t have product out to dealers. Probably easier to conduct sales campaigns to reduce inventory too.

But you are right, supply chain issues remain.


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[alisa]

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread

 

[Boudreaux]

MSRP(MountainStatesRetailPricing) was a new thing to me until I moved west.

Uh, MSRP is the manufacturer's suggested retail price. It is merely a suggestion from the manufacturer as to how much to sell their product for.
MAP pricing is the minimum advertising price, this is strickly enforced and can cause the lost of manufacture product if violated.

Thanks,
Boswell

 

[sneaky]

Uh, MSRP is the manufacturer's suggested retail price. It is merely a suggestion from the manufacturer as to how much to sell their product for.
MAP pricing is the minimum advertising price, this is strickly enforced and can cause the lost of manufacture product if violated.

Thanks,
Boswell

Good grief, that joke went straight over your head didn't it? As a former business owner I'm well aware of what they both are. The tongue-in- cheek MSRP comment is merely indicative of the fact that shops in the western states charge full MSRP, and shops back east charge MAP price. It's a matter of volume, back east you make up the difference in retail price charged by selling much higher volume, out west, there are far fewer hunters so shops don't have that option for the most part. I've owned a shop back east, and worked in shops out here in the western states. The sales reps are the ones that make the jokes about MSRP standing for MountainStatesRetailPricing.

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[ktowncamo]

A relationship with Amazon would signal First Lite is going to use them for fulfillment for sure, sales perhaps. Amazon wet's their beak on inventory storage, pick/pack/ship, a % on the return. Plus you are stuck with Amazon's item return rules if you use them. If selling items on Amazon, they take a % of the sale plus their standard credit card discount. Being based out of Sun Valley ID, they are certain not to run a warehouse from that location. Boise or Twin Falls is a possibility. My guess is they do not want to learn the distribution game just yet and this would ease their transition. To be competitive with KUIU though, they will have to run their own pick/pack/ship at some point. Amazon takes a big chunk when you do the math.

FL uses a company called Verde which handles all their warehousing, shipping, receiving, etc. They haven't shipped anything from their own offices in Sun Valley. Verde is located in Boise.

Amazon takes 15% commission. That includes the credit card fees. IF FL were to send product to Amazon, which they've not done in the past, there would also be a stocking fee which Amazon collects based on the dimensional area that the product consumes in the Amazon warehouse. Essentially you're renting that space to be able to offer it on Amazon with Amazon doing the shipping. That also buys you the "PRIME" feature on the listing.

About 2 years ago FL agreed to offer it's products on Amazon for the first time, and to allow a 5 online dealers to do the same, but all parties involved needed to fulfill the orders themselves. No "FBA" (Fulfilled by Amazon) was allowed. Since there will be no competition in the marketplace, I suspect that FL will not send product to the Amazon warehouse since getting PRIME next to the listing will no longer give an advantage, other than to give warm fuzzies to guys like me that are PRIME members, for better or for worse.

They have no intention to ever learn the ins and outs of running their own warehouse. They enjoy a certain lifestyle and manner in running their business and to that end they would prefer to pay for that service than go through the brain damage or hassle (Depending on your perspective) of running a warehouse in addition to trying to innovate on the product side.

Kuiu, FL, Sitka, Kryptek - none of them have run their own warehouses. It's an enormous strain on growing businesses to focus on product development, sales, marketing, AND figure out how to run a warehouse.

Interesting perspectives on this thread. Thanks to those that chimed in. I rarely read a thread cover to cover(time constraints mostly), but this one kept my interest. Likely because I've been a FL dealer and fan for 9 years since meeting them at their first ATA show.

 

[colersu22]

FL uses a company called Verde which handles all their warehousing, shipping, receiving, etc. They haven't shipped anything from their own offices in Sun Valley. Verde is located in Boise.

Amazon takes 15% commission. That includes the credit card fees. IF FL were to send product to Amazon, which they've not done in the past, there would also be a stocking fee which Amazon collects based on the dimensional area that the product consumes in the Amazon warehouse. Essentially you're renting that space to be able to offer it on Amazon with Amazon doing the shipping. That also buys you the "PRIME" feature on the listing.

About 2 years ago FL agreed to offer it's products on Amazon for the first time, and to allow a 5 online dealers to do the same, but all parties involved needed to fulfill the orders themselves. No "FBA" (Fulfilled by Amazon) was allowed. Since there will be no competition in the marketplace, I suspect that FL will not send product to the Amazon warehouse since getting PRIME next to the listing will no longer give an advantage, other than to give warm fuzzies to guys like me that are PRIME members, for better or for worse.

They have no intention to ever learn the ins and outs of running their own warehouse. They enjoy a certain lifestyle and manner in running their business and to that end they would prefer to pay for that service than go through the brain damage or hassle (Depending on your perspective) of running a warehouse in addition to trying to innovate on the product side.

Kuiu, FL, Sitka, Kryptek - none of them have run their own warehouses. It's an enormous strain on growing businesses to focus on product development, sales, marketing, AND figure out how to run a warehouse.

Interesting perspectives on this thread. Thanks to those that chimed in. I rarely read a thread cover to cover(time constraints mostly), but this one kept my interest. Likely because I've been a FL dealer and fan for 9 years since meeting them at their first ATA show.

So with all that said id BlackOvis still going to be carrying First Lite?

 

[Mtnboy]

No.

Nobody will be selling it besides First Lite. No more dealers period.

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[dotman]

No.

Nobody will be selling it besides First Lite. No more dealers period.

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Do you work for First Lite? Because that’s not what I understand from the press release:

Beginning with the 2018 season, First Lite products will be available exclusively at firstlite.com and select third party marketplaces including Amazon.com and others.

 

[Mtnboy]

They might be using 3rd party platforms to sell but they won't be using any retailers.

Amazon.com is not the same as S&S Archery, Argali, Midway USA, Black Ovis etc.

That's why pretty much all the retailers are having sales now, getting rid of product while they can and First Lite no longer has any "leverage" to hold them to pricing standards because none of them will be receiving any product next year anyway.

Doesn't matter how I know, but let's just say I knew about this before that press release came out...



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[LandYacht]

^ First Lite Ninja


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[TonySkyline]

^ First Lite Ninja


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Who has a nice first lite brimmed beanie they wanna sell?? I want that in Orange bad

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[JigStick]

If I cant try the shit on, then im not buying it. its as simple as that. Dumb move if you ask me. Reminds me of something Kuiu would do. Use your dealers to push the product and help spread the word. Then dump them.

 

[huntaholic123]

To each there own. Can't blame a business for making a move they feel is best to succeed. I'm sure they will lose some business but overall I can't imagine they would make this decision unless they felt it was the right move to create higher profit margins. I doubt they had ill intentions to there dealers but I can't say for sure considering I don't personally know any of the owners of FL.