FFP + Capped Turrets + IR?

[Jack321]

Looking for a FFP with capped turrets and an IR Reticle with subtensions to shoot out to 500 yds hunting? Preferably a 3-14x, 4-16x, 3-18x.

If I can only have 2 of those 3, I'd ditch the IR, but would like an IR if it's possible.

Am I looking for a unicorn that doesn't exist?

I'm fairly certain Meopa and Burris make one but I don't believe they are IR. Any others? Would LOVE it if it were $1k or under.

 

[jfk69]

A new Gen 2 SWFA 3-15x42. No illuminated ret but covers everything else nicely.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Take a look at the offerings from Element

Shop Online | Camera Land NY

Shop Online | Camera Land NY

cameralandny.com

 

[Macintosh]

A s&b klassik 3-12 with capped turrets and P3 reticle seems to not be available anymore, but ought to be in your budget if you can find one used.

Trijicon also offers a mil-dot reticle in several of their capped turrets scopes.

 

[Jack321]

Take a look at the offerings from Element

Shop Online | Camera Land NY

Shop Online | Camera Land NY

cameralandny.com

Never heard of Element scopes before....?

I was hoping something in the major lines of scopes? Like: Vortex, Meopa, Leupold, etc.

 

[Jack321]

A s&b klassik 3-12 with capped turrets and P3 reticle seems to not be available anymore, but ought to be in your budget if you can find one used.

Trijicon also offers a mil-dot reticle in several of their capped turrets scopes.

Are the trijicons FFP and capped turrets?

I forgot to mention I'd prefer MOA over MIL.

 

[rem.ostrem]

Check out Hawke Optics. Lots of options to choose from there.

 

[Macintosh]

Are the trijicons FFP and capped turrets?

I forgot to mention I'd prefer MOA over MIL.

Some are, some arent. Ffp will be really helpful on the higher magnification scopes. On a 9x or 10x scope it probably doesnt matter so much since you will still have some reasonable fov even at max magnification. Not many decent ffp scopes that have capped turrets, for a reason. You may have to pick one between ffp or capped turrets.

Trij makes a moa dot reticle as well as some other moa based hashed reticles. NF shv 3.5-10 with the moa-r reticle.

For holdovers I find mils MUCH easier because they already line up very close for most cartridges with a 100 yard zero. Moa is awkward to me in where it lines up with yardages, and requires more counting of lines, etc—much easier to make an error in your hold ime.

In either case, 500 yards is an awfully long poke for holdovers with any reticle thats bold enough to be useable at lower magnification, every reticle Ive ever used was either compromised at normal ranges or at longer ranges if you were strictly holding over with the reticle. I tried this for awhile. In the end I found that 99% of the time I was better off using a reticle that was better at normal ranges (say 300 and in) and limiting my holdovers to that range, and dialing past about 350-400 yards. It depends a lot on where and how you hunt, cartridge choice, size of target (elk vs little deer), and your resulting priorities.

 

[Jack321]

Some are, some arent. Ffp will be really helpful on the higher magnification scopes. On a 9x or 10x scope it probably doesnt matter so much since you will still have some reasonable fov even at max magnification. Not many decent ffp scopes that have capped turrets, for a reason. You may have to pick one between ffp or capped turrets.

Trij makes a moa dot reticle as well as some other moa based hashed reticles. NF shv 3.5-10 with the moa-r reticle.

For holdovers I find mils MUCH easier because they already line up very close for most cartridges with a 100 yard zero. Moa is awkward to me in where it lines up with yardages, and requires more counting of lines, etc—much easier to make an error in your hold ime.

In either case, 500 yards is an awfully long poke for holdovers with any reticle thats bold enough to be useable at lower magnification, every reticle Ive ever used was either compromised at normal ranges or at longer ranges if you were strictly holding over with the reticle. I tried this for awhile. In the end I found that 99% of the time I was better off using a reticle that was better at normal ranges (say 300 and in) and limiting my holdovers to that range, and dialing past about 350-400 yards. It depends a lot on where and how you hunt, cartridge choice, size of target (elk vs little deer), and your resulting priorities.

Yeah, I shoot hold overs for all my scopes in FFP. I have several higher end Leupys and some Nightforce but mostly Diamondback FFPs for most of my guns.

Was in Montana for an elk hunt on horses. My brother had a Gen 1 Vortex Viper 5-25 FFP with a zero stop that got knocked around in the scabbard WITH a scope glove on. Granted he didn't fire a shot but on the 3rd day of the hunt noticed his windage wad knocked around.

Got home and shot it and it was 2 ft off horizontal.

So now he wants a capped FFP scope so it doesn't get knocked around.

I find MOA easier because MOA lines up better for yards as opposed to MILs meters.

My elk I shot this year was at 340 yds, quartering away and was trotting before she stopped and I dumped her with one shot. I didn't have time to dial, I had land marks ranged around her before the heard showed up, so I just held my subtension, squeezed and she dropped in her tracks.

So I know I'm looking for something specific.

 

[Macintosh]

only problem is capped ffp scopes dont exist for the most part—so yes I think you are looking for a unicorn. Certainly they're not common. Capped windage is common and lots of people prefer that b/c pretty much no one dials for wind. Perhaps a baby atacr would work with a locking turret? Lots of people also use a MPBR zero to accomplish the same thing out to 350 to 400 yards or so too.

Regarding mils and moa lining up—you do you, but given the limited scope options in what youre looking for it might be helpful to consider mils.

Mils line up like:
100 YARDS=your zero
200=.5 (super easy holdover)
300 = 1mil (super easy holdover)
400 is 2mils (super easy holdover)
500 is 3mils (super easy holdover)
This^ equates to each one hundred yards from 300 up, you subtract 2 and that’s the mil holdover.

For odd yardages, from 300 and up, each 10 yards is 0.1mil , so 20 yards is .2, 70 yards is .7, etc. ( consistent holdover estimation between 100’s). 200-300 each 20 yards is .1.

So 490 yards is 2.9. 370 is 1.7. Most any standard velocity centerfire rifle will be within .1 or .2 mils of the above ^ well past 500 yards, and its quite simple to do on the fly in your head. This is all yards, not meters.

To do the same thing in moa you are using numbers that dont line up with the yardages in a linear fashion, AND to get to 500 yards youre counting 10+ hashes in the reticle rather than 3. If you think holding for 430 yards its easier to hold 7.75moa than it is to hold 2.3, then I guess you should stick with that. For me—and I had moa ingrained in me too— its much simpler, faster, and far less prone to error to use mils.

Quick shot opportunity at 340 yards? Easy, 3 hundreds, so 3-2=1 mil, plus .4 for the extra 40 yards. 1.4mils is your solution. Or 4.75 moa, but I’d need a chart for that. A little practice and this is fast and easy on the fly without having to consult a chart. I still think 500 is pushing it but as far as a “system” goes I dont think it gets any easier.

 

[peaceful_ruler]

Not capped but locking turrets on the Athlon Helos 2-12x42. It's FFP and has illumination. A ton of scope for the money

 

[Kaleb]

only problem is capped ffp scopes dont exist for the most part—so yes I think you are looking for a unicorn. Certainly they're not common. Capped windage is common and lots of people prefer that b/c pretty much no one dials for wind. Perhaps a baby atacr would work with a locking turret? Lots of people also use a MPBR zero to accomplish the same thing out to 350 to 400 yards or so too.

Regarding mils and moa lining up—you do you, but given the limited scope options in what youre looking for it might be helpful to consider mils.

Mils line up like:
100 YARDS=your zero
200=.5 (super easy holdover)
300 = 1mil (super easy holdover)
400 is 2mils (super easy holdover)
500 is 3mils (super easy holdover)
This^ equates to each one hundred yards from 300 up, you subtract 2 and that’s the mil holdover.

For odd yardages, from 300 and up, each 10 yards is 0.1mil , so 20 yards is .2, 70 yards is .7, etc. ( consistent holdover estimation between 100’s). 200-300 each 20 yards is .1.

So 490 yards is 2.9. 370 is 1.7. Most any standard velocity centerfire rifle will be within .1 or .2 mils of the above ^ well past 500 yards, and its quite simple to do on the fly in your head. This is all yards, not meters.

To do the same thing in moa you are using numbers that dont line up with the yardages in a linear fashion, AND to get to 500 yards youre counting 10+ hashes in the reticle rather than 3. If you think holding for 430 yards its easier to hold 7.75moa than it is to hold 2.3, then I guess you should stick with that. For me—and I had moa ingrained in me too— its much simpler, faster, and far less prone to error to use mils.

Quick shot opportunity at 340 yards? Easy, 3 hundreds, so 3-2=1 mil, plus .4 for the extra 40 yards. 1.4mils is your solution. Or 4.75 moa, but I’d need a chart for that. A little practice and this is fast and easy on the fly without having to consult a chart. I still think 500 is pushing it but as far as a “system” goes I dont think it gets any easier.

I’m either doing something wrong or mine do not all line up like that. Maybe close enough at first to hit a deer but the farther I go the less that works for me.

 

[dirtytough]

I’m either doing something wrong or mine do not all line up like that. Maybe close enough at first to hit a deer but the farther I go the less that works for me.

It doesn’t line up with most modern cartridges with decent BC bullets even at low elevation.

It’s off from stuff like 6.5 creed, 6 creed, etc.

 

[Macintosh]

@Kaleb What cartridge, and are you zeroed at 100? How far off are you at what distances?

Ex, my 6.5cm is off .3 at 300 yards (3.5” at that range) in winter at sea level, but only .2 the rest of the year, and its only off .1 at 400 and 500. My 270win is also off a little but is closer, only .1 off this time of year out past 600 yards. Not every gun is going to fit perfectly, but a whole lot fit pretty darn well. In general it lines up better for me the rest of the year and at a little higher elevation. I have heard folks say it lines up best with cartridges shooting 2700-2800fps, although my examples below are 2660 and 3050. Lots of folks also use a correction to it to account for a particular cartridge.

I can say from experience its not perfect but that it lines up better than most MPBR zeros that are used past 300 yards or so. Its not intended to be perfect, its intended to be very close—and in general I have found it to be exactly that, very close. I didnt invent this either, this is SOP for a whole lot of people. If you want to be within a click at all ranges, and you have time to do that...obviously go with that. I'll be the first to say that I think dialing is always better and using a true solution is always better, and I'd practice and limit my range to where I can maqke hits using whatever technique I'm using. But if you are going to limit your self to holdovers in the reticle and want a field-expedient way to do it on a quick opportunity or on a followup shot out past any reasonable MPBR system...tell me what what works better?

If we’re taking the op’s post off topic then someone can start a new thread.

This is actual trued dope for my 270 with factory-loaded 129gr LRX's:



This is actual trued dope for my 6.5cm with my practice ammo hornady factory 140gr bthp. I just “favor high” around 300 yards and it works great.