Federal BC's or velocities extremely optimisitic?

[Hunthigh1]

Are the factory ammo speeds and BC's listed by Federal wildly optimistic? Today I shot my 30-06 and my drops seemed much higher than expected. Listed below is what I observed.

30-06SPRG -Federal Premium -180 Grain Federal Trophy Copper
Elevation: 5900'
Temp 38F
Scope height: 1.75"
Barrel length: 22"
Twist: 1:10

Rifle Zeroed at 200YDS

AVG group at 300YDS= -9"
AVG group at 400YDS= -26"

It seems that either the BC I should be using is much lower than provided by federal or my velocity is way lower than federal suggests. If I use the Federal ballistics app and hold their BC it seems that my velocity is in the range of 2525 FPS. . .

Normally I would just shoot more and figure out what my true dope is by burning powder but this ammo crisis has me wanting to be as efficient as possible on ammo consumption. I know I know, just buy a damn Chrono. . . . Anyone have thoughts on this or chrony speeds for that federal load?

 

[SDHNTR]

You need a chronograph. You can’t expect your drops to be even close with box velocities. Way too many variables. The first of which would likely be your 22” bbl…

 

[Hunthigh1]

Ya I know. I’m a cheap SOB. I expect velocities below box, but 175FPS below box velocity seems a bit shocking. I’m going to try to find someone local who I can borrow a chrony from. I can’t justify the purchase at the moment

 

[SDHNTR]

You can pick one up for $100 ish. You don’t need a LabRadar!

 

[sneaky]

You could also have a slow barrel, slower than the normal fps loss of typical barrel length change.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[wind gypsy]

It's shooting slower than marked on the box. Not uncommon at all in a shorter barrel, cooler weather, etc. If you're shooting a tikka, add that to the list of contributing factors. As has been stated, BC has very little impact on drops at 3-400 yards.

 

[prm]

The Trophy Copper I shot in another cartridge were much slower than noted on box. On the other hand, Federal Fusion was as advertised.

 

[Newtosavage]

I've never seen a box of factory ammo get within 100 fps of it's printed velocity from a 22" barrel. Not even once. Usually it's 120-150 fps. slower. My chrono has shocked some guys that I loaned it to at the range.

I thought one guy was going to sue his gunsmith after shooting his "custom hand loaded ammo" over my chrono. Another guy considered cancelling his hunt.

Crazy that everyone that shoots more than a box of ammo/year doesn't have one. Mine cost $100 and I've had it over 15 years now.

 

[Newtosavage]

That's weird. I've got a 22" on a back-up hunting rifle, and here are some MV from some recent factory ammo:

Hornady 140 American Gunner (Lot # 3200163 & 3202292)
Advertised MV = 2690 fps
Average MV = 2670 fps
Difference = -20 fps

Hornady 140 ELD-M (Lot #3192505)
Advertised MV = 2710 fps
Average MV = 2740 fps
Difference = +28 fps

Hornady 143 ELD-X (Lot#3170992)
Advertised MV = 2700 fps
Average MV = 2630 fps
Difference = -70 fps

Hornady 143 ELD-X (Lot#3202369)
Advertised MV = 2700 fps
Average MV = 2710 fps
Difference = +10 fps

Copper Creek Loaded 140 Berger Elite Hunter (Lot#26021920)
Advertised MV = 2,800 fps
Average MV = 2,710 fps
Difference = -90 fps

Federal 140 SMK (Lot #F074V36)
Advertised MV = 2675
Average MV = 2650 fps
Difference = -25 fps

I'd have to flip through my data book to get more/better results, but those are just easy to grab from my phone. All of the above were confirmed out to at least 1,000 yards, and some of those lots were also chrono'd.

I'm not saying this is a problem for you, but optical chrono's will read slow unless you are very diligent in setting it up perfectly square/parallel. The distance between the screens is a set constant in the software, so if you shoot at an angle, the real distance is further, which results in a slower reading.

I've been considering getting a new chrono once mine finally dies. But my observations aren't from my chrono alone. Looks like you've had different experiences. Everyone needs to sort this for themselves IMO.

 

[WCB]

Yep short barrel, cool weather, individual firearm, and also note the posted box velocity is generic for the load. Manufacturing variance or acceptable velocity variance could be +/-40fps or whatever. SO short barrel, cool weather, individual gun that shoots slower, and a starting velocity already under "posted on the box" velocity can stack up.

Also, are you cutting the X @200 or "zeroed" buy eye ball at 200? 1/4 or 1/3 or 1/2 MOA off on the zero can make a down range change again when stacked with other variables.

 

[wind gypsy]

That's weird. I've got a 22" on a back-up hunting rifle, and here are some MV from some recent factory ammo:

Hornady 140 American Gunner (Lot # 3200163 & 3202292)
Advertised MV = 2690 fps
Average MV = 2670 fps
Difference = -20 fps

Hornady 140 ELD-M (Lot #3192505)
Advertised MV = 2710 fps
Average MV = 2740 fps
Difference = +28 fps

Hornady 143 ELD-X (Lot#3170992)
Advertised MV = 2700 fps
Average MV = 2630 fps
Difference = -70 fps

Hornady 143 ELD-X (Lot#3202369)
Advertised MV = 2700 fps
Average MV = 2710 fps
Difference = +10 fps

Copper Creek Loaded 140 Berger Elite Hunter (Lot#26021920)
Advertised MV = 2,800 fps
Average MV = 2,710 fps
Difference = -90 fps

Federal 140 SMK (Lot #F074V36)
Advertised MV = 2675
Average MV = 2650 fps
Difference = -25 fps

I'd have to flip through my data book to get more/better results, but those are just easy to grab from my phone. All of the above were confirmed out to at least 1,000 yards, and some of those lots were also chrono'd.

I'm not saying this is a problem for you, but optical chrono's will read slow unless you are very diligent in setting it up perfectly square/parallel. The distance between the screens is a set constant in the software, so if you shoot at an angle, the real distance is further, which results in a slower reading.

Most noteworthy thing in those results to me is 80 FPS variance in different lots of the 143eldx.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I know my 20" barreled 308 Win shoots...
* Commercial 178 gr Hornady Precision Hunter: average 2518 fps (chrono'd) - published is 2600 fps
* Commercial 175 gr Federal Terminal Ascent: average 2600 fps (chrono'd) - published is 2600 fps

Proves nothing other than my 308 may shoot one bullet faster than the other during the conditions that I shot and chrono'd them.

NOTE: I always confirm my chronograph is accurate using "known good" hand-loads.

 

[Lawnboi]

Most noteworthy thing in those results to me is 80 FPS variance in different lots of the 143eldx.

I had some wild swings in Hornady lots back when I was shooting factory ammo for matches, in the days of $25 dollar a box ammo.

In excess of 100 fps on the same day. Learned that one the hard way.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Lol, this is very similar to one of the motorcycle forms that I'm a part of. Guys put a jet kit in their carbureted motorcycle, take it to the dyno and see it puts out less hp and torque than the were lead to believe. Too many stinking variables to diagnose.

Get a chronograph when you are able, check your velocity and you will answer most of the questions posed in the original post.

 

[id_jon]

I'm not saying this is a problem for you, but optical chrono's will read slow unless you are very diligent in setting it up perfectly square/parallel. The distance between the screens is a set constant in the software, so if you shoot at an angle, the real distance is further, which results in a slower reading.

I have found that when I true my velocity at 900 yards that my loads are usually faster than my chrono said, usually around 50-75 fps. I've got to the point that I'd that shoot an extra few rounds truing at 900 than mess with setting up my chrono, but not everyone has easy access to 900 yard ranges.

 

[Hunthigh1]

You don’t need a chrono, and unless you’re going to chrono a couple boxes of that Lot#, it won’t do you a ton of good anyways. It will get you in the ball park, but you’ll need to true it at distance anyways.

How many rounds to confirm zero? Got any pictures of targets? How many rounds to confirm actual drops? Any pictures? How are you determining range? Were you dialing or holding with your scope? If so, have you checked to make sure it tracks and/or reticle is calibrated? How’d you determine all your other inputs?

At this range, BC means about nothing - don’t touch BC until at least 1,000 yards. Unless Federal specifies, their MV is likely based on a 26” barrel. Figure a loss of about 20-35 fps per inch of barrel. So for an advertised 2700 fps I’d expect your rifle to be in the 2620 - 2560 fps range(ish).

This is very helpful. Thanks. If I use the lower end of your range (2560FPS) I get very close to my observed drops. So I think it simply is what it is.
A slow load/ barrel.

The method I used is below-
I zeroed with 7 shots at 200 yards.
I then Held dead on target at 300 and 400 and shot 7 shot groups at each.
I then took and average elevation of my groups distance below the target at each range. By doing it This way I know it is not possible for a reticle or dialing error to occur. Since I was holding dead on and measuring drop with a tape on the target

 

[Wrench]

I use 100-600 to validate velocity. 800 and beyond to validate BC.

.523 @2700 is what I see as claimed numbers for your ammo.

 

[Hunthigh1]

Thanks for the responses and experience. At the end of the day it hits where it hits. I will stretch it out to 5 and 600 for more drop data.

 

[SDHNTR]

This is very helpful. Thanks. If I use the lower end of your range (2560FPS) I get very close to my observed drops. So I think it simply is what it is.
A slow load/ barrel.

The method I used is below-
I zeroed with 7 shots at 200 yards.
I then Held dead on target at 300 and 400 and shot 7 shot groups at each.
I then took and average elevation of my groups distance below the target at each range. By doing it This way I know it is not possible for a reticle or dialing error to occur. Since I was holding dead on and measuring drop with a tape on the target

With the money you spent burning ammo, you could've been well on your way to buying a chrono and could stop guessing.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Yeah, as long as the bullet has the velocity to expand, you are gtg.