Fact checking Ashby

[bsnedeker]

Like I said, devils advocate…I know you tune.

When we start with nothing as Ashby does, what are THE most important factors?
Primarily numero uno….we have to hit the target…so Accuracy and arrow flight have to be the prime criteria we base everything on, right?

We see it all the time on these forums with the guys that drank the Koolaid and start an “Arrow Build” thread using FOC, Tip weight and high arrow weight as their main criteria.

Isn’t that getting the cart before the horse?

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Not to speak for the man, but I think the issue is that you phrased your argument including the assumption that you would MISS the target whereas, again not trying to speak for you, I think you were really getting to the idea of an improperly tuned arrow loses a ton of energy in order to correct itself or, worst case scenario, when it hits the animal before it has corrected and impacts at an angle. Basically, even a poorly tuned arrow can hit the target, but it isn't going to penetrate to even close to the degree that a well tuned arrow would, all else being equal.

Maybe we can just split the difference and make number 1: A well constructed, durable arrow and components that is properly tuned to the bow.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Then your testing is not accurate. That Archery Report website is still up, check that out for a legit source.

Lol. Ok

I don’t need to look at somebody else’s testing when it has nothing to do with mine.

 

[5MilesBack]

Maybe we can just split the difference and make number 1: A well constructed, durable arrow and components that is properly tuned to the bow.

Correct. We have to take some things for granted. I have a very long draw length, I should probably put arrow length at the top of my list if we're not taking some things for granted. Because an arrow that keeps pulling off the back of the rest before I get to full draw makes everything else a moot point.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

Correct. We have to take some things for granted. I have a very long draw length, I should probably put arrow length at the top of my list if we're not taking some things for granted. Because an arrow that keeps pulling off the back of the rest before I get to full draw makes everything else a moot point.

Dude, those long arrows are a %&^(# to source. Especially with a trad bow. You should try getting a 33" arrow tuned for a 43lb @32" recurve without it weighing 550 grains


As for the rest of this thread... save this drama for the winter! It's still hunting season and I don't need this distraction.

 

[Brizzle]

is anyone else getting tired of all the wasted space on this forum over arrow builds? Your arrow won’t make you kill more animals, putting it where it needs to be does. I feel like we need a separate section just for arrow debates these days. I shoot speed arrows, you shoot heavy arrows, big deal, let’s talk about hunting.

 

[OR Archer]

is anyone else getting tired of all the wasted space on this forum over arrow builds? Your arrow won’t make you kill more animals, putting it where it needs to be does. I feel like we need a separate section just for arrow debates these days. I shoot speed arrows, you shoot heavy arrows, big deal, let’s talk about hunting.

Yep. Getting redundant with the arrow build threads. This thread had good potential but quickly went south.

 

[TSAMP]

 

[5MilesBack]

View attachment 347062

You shoot flaming arrows???? Awesome. I can't get mine long enough to do that.

 

[TheTone]

View attachment 347062

Yep, shot the same arrows and heads for 12 years. Was really disappointed when my supply got too low. Still not sure I made the right replacement choice

 

[Beendare]

is anyone else getting tired of all the wasted space on this forum over arrow builds?

Well thats the point here right?

According to some of these supposed experts, you can’t kill anything unless you use a manly arrow in the 650g plus range, very high FOC, etc.

They totally ignore the fact that piles of critters are shot every year effectively with an average setup. The guys trying to interject some common sense into the subject are always fighting these Snake Oil recommendations.
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[Wrench]

Well thats the point here right?

According to some of these supposed experts, you can’t kill anything unless you use a manly arrow in the 650g plus range, very high FOC, etc.

They totally ignore the fact that piles of critters are shot every year effectively with an average setup. The guys trying to interject some common sense into the subject are always fighting these Snake Oil recommendations.
.

I get a kick out of it. Build a trendy arrow, use 400 ft/sq of turkey wing to make it go straight.

Pretty wild that once upon a time a xx75 and a zwickey could make meat everywhere in north America....all while wearing $18 worth of red wool.

 

[Rob5589]

I get a kick out of it. Build a trendy arrow, use 400 ft/sq of turkey wing to make it go straight.

Pretty wild that once upon a time a xx75 and a zwickey could make meat everywhere in north America....all while wearing $18 worth of red wool.

XX75/78 with a Thunderhead used to able to kill anything, back in the day.

 

[Pramo]

I killed some deer in my youth with XX78 super slams after watching VHS hunting videos, I felt like a king when I bought 6 of them from "Larrys hunting and fishing" our local store my mom drove me to. I think since YouTube came out big game has naturally evolved to where deer and elk are now are made out of stainless steel surrounding ballistics gel and foam that can only be penetrated with 550grain+ and a $70 arrow.

 

[TSAMP]

You shoot flaming arrows???? Awesome. I can't get mine long enough to do that.

Iowa Regs say no explosive tips, but I dont recall anything about flaming arrows.

 

[Elkhntr08]

Owning a archery shop in the late 80s through the 90s was a real eye opener. The overdraw, light arrow craz was during that time period.
For 3 or 4 years, some of my regulars keep track of the wounded/lost deer that were discussed in the shop. The #1 common denominator was overdraw/ light arrow setup. Most common issue was little penetration. During the same time, I was shooting a 29” 2317 with a 200 grain Snuffer at 75# blowing through everything.
Fast forward to today. The FOC craz is insane. Why is it so hard to understand that the arrow stabilizes by being nose heavy (FOC) AND rotating when it’s launched straight out of the bow. There’s the #1 issue. Perfectly tuned bow/arrow combinations. I’ve read hundreds of posts in the past from guys that glued in 100 grain brass inserts in their arrow and can’t get broadheads to fly. Change to mechanicals.
Bottom line, a heavier arrow from a well tunes bow will penetrate better than a light arrow from a well tuned bow. A cut on contact head will penetrate better than any mechanical. You can get a cut on contact head to fly with your field points,, but it takes some time and effort. If you pick up your bow a month before season, you’ll probably never achieve this.
As my mentor used to tell me, archery is not complicated, keep it simple stupid.
Sorry for dragging this back up, missed it the first time around. I was out bowhunting.

 

[Beendare]

A voice of reason ^ ...nice post....but Cmon, you know you need more "Lever arm" in your arrows- grin

I too shot an overdraw/light arrows/mech heads in the 80's....and was scratching my head with the poor performance.

I dumped the OD and was killing everything with avg arrows [shooting about 440g back then]

Heck I didn't know those were painty waist arrows- according to the internet experts anyway- but they sure killed a lot of critters!

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