Equipment versus practice posts and Rifle practice/shooting

[lak2004]

For this season, I want to be confident out to 400 with some wind. I don't think it will take too much more shooting to get myself there.

It would be great if I can get to where I could confidently take a 600yd shot if conditions are good. And I really want to get some more experience with wind, since my elk hunting is in Wyoming.

But ideally I won't ever take a first shot past 300 anyway.

Go check out the Cold Bore Challenge in the long range hunting subforum. 600 yards is no chip shot for most on a cold bore. I missed my first and hit my 2nd. More shooting at different positions and different conditions is the best training. I'd tend to agree with lawnboi. If you're already strapped budget wise, a new rifle isn't going to get you shooting more. Shoot your 30-06 with a bullet it likes. Practice breathing, rifle hold and trigger control with a dummy round or dry firing at home for good technique.

 

[zpearo]

Go check out the Cold Bore Challenge in the long range hunting subforum. 600 yards is no chip shot for most on a cold bore. I missed my first and hit my 2nd. More shooting at different positions and different conditions is the best training. I'd tend to agree with lawnboi. If you're already strapped budget wise, a new rifle isn't going to get you shooting more. Shoot your 30-06 with a bullet it likes. Practice breathing, rifle hold and trigger control with a dummy round or dry firing at home for good technique.

I'll also mention one reason the 223 seems attractive is I can do lots of shooting without my shoulder getting sore. Shooting a box of ammo with the 30-.06 gets a bit tender and I'm quite conscious of the recoil.

So I'm hoping that I could shoot more of 223 without the shoulder soreness and also avoid some bad habits cropping up from expecting the hard recoil. I am not tight for money, but a few hundred bucks of savings of the vanguard vs the Tikka is still attractive.

 

[Antares]

I set myself up with a suppressed .223 Tikka last year and it's the best money I've ever spent on a rifle. Period. If I could go back in time and give this rifle to my 20-year old self, I'd be a much better shooter today.

 

[Lawnboi]

I'll also mention one reason the 223 seems attractive is I can do lots of shooting without my shoulder getting sore. Shooting a box of ammo with the 30-.06 gets a bit tender and I'm quite conscious of the recoil.

So I'm hoping that I could shoot more of 223 without the shoulder soreness and also avoid some bad habits cropping up from expecting the hard recoil. I am not tight for money, but a few hundred bucks of savings of the vanguard vs the Tikka is still attractive.

If you can afford it I would buy one without a doubt. It’s a good rifle to have.

What twist is the vanguard?

Is a suppressor an option for you? Even one on your 3006 will bring it from a pain to something you can shoot quite a bit of.

If your goal is getting away from recoil sensitivity, the 223 can provide some false confidence. As noted above, I mainly shoot smaller bullets since buying a 223 years ago at the direction of some on this forum.

 

[HighUintas]

Get a full size 22lr or 17hmr and just use a shorter distance and smaller scoring rings when practicing.

Cheaper gun, cheaper ammo.

Tikka or CZ 457

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus do you have any thoughts on whether I ought to get a Vanguard in 223 for consistency with my hunting rifle versus the Tikka route? The Vanguard is on sale for $500 at Sportsmans Warehouse at the moment, which sounds nice on my student budget. Don't see any used Tikkas up for sale.

The Vanguard has a 1-9” twist, which would eliminate it from contention right out of the gate. The manual of arms isn’t different enough to matter, safety is similar, etc. The Tikka is a better rifle on every level. The main issue that you will have is the Tikka will likely make you want to replace the 30-06 with another.


So, Tikka 223 with 1-8” twist.

 

[zpearo]

If you can afford it I would buy one without a doubt. It’s a good rifle to have.

What twist is the vanguard?

Is a suppressor an option for you? Even one on your 3006 will bring it from a pain to something you can shoot quite a bit of.

If your goal is getting away from recoil sensitivity, the 223 can provide some false confidence. As noted above, I mainly shoot smaller bullets since buying a 223 years ago at the direction of some on this forum.

Do you mean if I can afford the Tikka, or just a 223 in general?

The vanguard 223 is a 1-9" twist (the .30-06 is 1-10"). I notice people saying the Tikka 1-8" can handle 77gr ammo, but am not sure why that is. Do you know if the vanguard would handle it also?

If I got a 223, I'd likely use it as I start doing western deer hunting too (Illinois has always been shotgun with sabot slugs, though they are starting to allow some single shot rifles this year).

 

[zpearo]

The Vanguard has a 1-9” twist, which would eliminate it from contention right out of the gate. The manual of arms isn’t different enough to matter, safety is similar, etc. The Tikka is a better rifle on every level. The main issue that you will have is the Tikka will likely make you want to replace the 30-06 with another.


So, Tikka 223 with 1-8” twist.

Why is the 1-8" so much better than the 1-9"?

Seems the Tikka is much better, so maybe I'll just plan on getting that in 223 and then upgrade my elk gun to a Tikka also later. Any recs on staying with .30-06 versus another caliber Tikka? I note that the Tikka .30-06 is 1-11" twist.

 

[Jimbee]

Why is the 1-8" so much better than the 1-9"?

Seems the Tikka is much better, so maybe I'll just plan on getting that in 223 and then upgrade my elk gun to a Tikka also later. Any recs on staying with .30-06 versus another caliber Tikka? I note that the Tikka .30-06 is 1-11" twist.

Get a Tikka 223 8 twist and a tikka 6.5creedmoor. If I knew then what I know now, that's what I'd have. I'm going to have a big sale someday and simply my life. Also, check out the scope evaluation threads.

 

[Antares]

Why is the 1-8" so much better than the 1-9"?

Seems the Tikka is much better, so maybe I'll just plan on getting that in 223 and then upgrade my elk gun to a Tikka also later. Any recs on staying with .30-06 versus another caliber Tikka? I note that the Tikka .30-06 is 1-11" twist.

You need a fast twist to stabilize heavy-for-caliber bullets (like the 77 TMK). If they're not sufficiently stabilized, precision will suffer.

 

[Lawnboi]

Do you mean if I can afford the Tikka, or just a 223 in general?

The vanguard 223 is a 1-9" twist (the .30-06 is 1-10"). I notice people saying the Tikka 1-8" can handle 77gr ammo, but am not sure why that is. Do you know if the vanguard would handle it also?

If I got a 223, I'd likely use it as I start doing western deer hunting too (Illinois has always been shotgun with sabot slugs, though they are starting to allow some single shot rifles this year).

223 in general. I would skip the vanguard if it’s a 9 twist and get the tikka. 9 twist is going to limit you, especially as you practice farther out with it. 75-77 is what you want to be shooting 300 plus. The light bullets become difficult to spot, and a little wind can make for more head scratchers.

 

[Pabst]

Why is the 1-8" so much better than the 1-9"?

Seems the Tikka is much better, so maybe I'll just plan on getting that in 223 and then upgrade my elk gun to a Tikka also later. Any recs on staying with .30-06 versus another caliber Tikka? I note that the Tikka .30-06 is 1-11" twist.

You can stabilize bullets up to around 68-69gr or so with a 1:9 twist, if you want to shoot heavier you'd need something faster. 1:9 would be fine for any of the cheap practice ammo out there, usually 55-62gr.

 

[zpearo]

Also, any recommendations on which model of the Tikka 223 to go with? Lite, superlite, etc?

 

[nobody]

Also, any recommendations on which model of the Tikka 223 to go with? Lite, superlite, etc?

Any T3X Lite model, whatever you can find. Stainless Lite, Superlite, Standard Lite (blued), doesn't really matter.

 

[lak2004]

Why is the 1-8" so much better than the 1-9"?

Seems the Tikka is much better, so maybe I'll just plan on getting that in 223 and then upgrade my elk gun to a Tikka also later. Any recs on staying with .30-06 versus another caliber Tikka? I note that the Tikka .30-06 is 1-11" twist.

Go with something in 6.5 or 7mm. Be better for recoil than any 30 cal. If you're keeping shots within 600 yds or so, you'll be fine with a 6.5 in Creedmoor or PRC and your shoulder will thank you.

 

[Antares]

Also, any recommendations on which model of the Tikka 223 to go with? Lite, superlite, etc?

Like @nobody said, the differences are minimal and don't affect performance. They're all the same barrel profile, same stocks, same mags, same bolts, etc.

Lite = blued
Stainless Lite = stainless
Superlite = stainless w/ fluted barrel

Those are the only differences between those models.

 

[DangerRanger]

1st attempt. Score 11(or12?) depending on line break rules. 19 total shots fired, timed out on 2.3

I’ve been meaning to do this for a long time, but this year I’ve changed a lot of my safe and my mindset to getting better, so finally happened. Most of my hunting shots historically come from prone bipod and from tree stands, where I’m far more comfortable.

This new build is pretty much built off/because of this site and I’m enjoying it. I’ve never shot this rifle anything but prone, so this was a big challenge but a lot of fun.

Round 1 went well, took my time trying to figure out positions, I’m trash off sitting unsupported, I need to work on figuring that position out, only dropped shot was from there.

Round 2 was a shit show, first time being on the clock with unsupported shooting, and it sent my pulse and stress through the roof. Lot to work on here, but did a little better round 3.

Overall prone went well, i usually shoot off a bipod but have used a pack before successfully. I forgot my hunting pack so I just used my work backpack stuffed with crap from my car. Worked ok.

Lots of fun, I’m going to do this again

 

[DangerRanger]

Had an absolute blast doing this challenge again today and brought my buddy along to do it as well. He impressed me on his first run using my rifle. 11/20 and I improved to a 13/20. Getting better.

We then proceeded to hot lap the last stage. Each of us would do a 60 second par time for 4 shots at all positions. Over and over.

The day ended with BOTH of us cleaning the 3rd stage in 40 seconds.

https://imgur.com/a/qrHzsKz

I was extremely happy with the tiny tikka that just kept hammering all day. I think in the end we shot round around 120 rounds through it and it functioned fantastic. Though I did learn my trijicon windage cap is a little large when it popped a case back in. It was removed and no more issues. Electrical tape is my plan.

 

[Phinehas25]

I did this challenge for the first time yesterday with my rokslide special. I shot a 12/20 if we are being generous. I was shooting PMC bronze 55gn fmj, which groups over 2moa 10 shot groups.

I really struggled with sitting supported. I didn't have shooting sticks with me and my back is injured so that I can't bend over low enough to rest on my pack.

The timed portions really challenge you. I was able to make all the times, but not by much in some cases.

The best part is I now have a baseline to build upon and I know what areas to emphasize in my training.

 

[Dobermann]

They all suck unless you are only using par times. I would suggest the CED 700.

Hi Form, I know you're usually able to back up strong statements like this with facts ... I've seen that PACT timers seem to be common; what do you see as the advantages of the CED 7000 over the PACT?

Genuine question, as I'm about to invest in one for training (both the drill in this thread, and handgun).

Cheers!