Elk Rifle Setups...School me

[WRO]

Right, that's why I knelt and shot off my knee...if only obviously. I haven't shot but maybe 25 out of the 350ish big game animals I've killed offhand. The ones I have were just about all less than 100 yards.

Congratulations in guess, wasn't referring to you, seen enough stuff guiding over the years that I'd take a benched up guy at 500 with my rifle over a client with there's on a 100 yard off hand every day of the week.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[BuzzH]

Congratulations in guess, wasn't referring to you, seen enough stuff guiding over the years that I'd take a benched up guy at 500 with my rifle over a client with there's on a 100 yard off hand every day of the week.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Big difference between clients and hunters in my experience. But I savvy your point. Nothing wrong with "benching up" a client at 100-200 yards either.

 

[WRO]

Big difference between clients and hunters in my experience. But I savvy your point. Nothing wrong with "benching up" a client at 100-200 yards either.

Not really, most guys have this self inflated view of themselves and think guys who go guided are less than.

Truth is, I've guided guys who are very very capable and been around lots of diy guys who think they're way more capable than they actually are.

 

[KsRancher]

Congrats to the OP on the bull. It's amazing how much lead they can soak up. I got my first elk this year. Seen them 1000yds away. Was making my way to where I thought I would be around 100yds. I was moving REALLY fast to head them off. Bumped a group of cows and spikes which ended up spooking the ones I was going after. So had to take the shot farther than wanted to, but easily within comfortable range. 408yds. Took 3 shots from a 300RUM with 180gr Corelokts before he fell. All 3 shots were 1/3 up way from the belly to back and about 6 inches behind front leg. My hand would have covered all the shots and he didn't fall over for what felt like 5 minutes(probably was way faster than that). Not one bullet made it through. Turned his inside to mush. I intentionally stayed off of the "high shoulder, drop them in their tracks shot" to not have both shoulders blown to heck. Was surprised that bullets didn't blow right thru with no bone but ribs. 2 never got out of the chest cavity, the other made to offside skin

 

[BuzzH]

Not really, most guys have this self inflated view of themselves anf think guys who go guided are less than.

Truth is, I've guided guys who are very very capable and been around lots of diy guys who think they're way more capable than they actually are.

I don't think that at all plenty of capable hunters go guided...leave your bias out of it. I've been around my share of guides and outfitters that didn't shit from clay as well. Tons of them go broke every year and scam hunters/clients as well.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Good work sticking with it and finding your bull Hunting is hunting things happen, you plan, you learn, you adapt, you do your best, you refine things as the decades go by, learning what worked and what did not……all country is not equal and you take the first good shot you can within yours and the equipments abilities….elk are super tough and will humble us all at some time if we hunt them long enough…..good luck on the future hunts

Been hunting the damn things for 54 years. Killed a bull on Friday seven miles from where I killed my first bull 54 years ago, almost to the day. Ross summed it up best. I too congratulate the OP on sticking with the tracking job. Stuff happens when you shoot elk, they sure as hell aren’t white tails.

 

[williaada]

Congrats on the bull. This thread is interesting just to read other peoples opinions.

 

[roosiebull]

This was my 2nd time tagging along for an elk hunt. Both were with rifle, 1st time was OTC for 2nd season and this year was limited 1st season. How do you setup for elk during 1st rifle season? I know weather/snow play a big part of the game, but what are your preferred setups?

We tried to find high spots to glass grassy open areas in the mornings/evenings and then glass the north sloped timber during the day. We either seen elk or heard elk every day scouting a few days prior to season opener. On opening day, we had a spike run through our lane, but was pretty quiet afterwards. About 11a across the ridge I glassed up a few bulls bedded in the north slope. It was about 650yards to the other side. We made our way down but could only cut off about 50 yards before we got into the thick stuff on our side of the ridge and had to shoot up, through it. My buddy and I practiced this summer/fall shooting long range, so we felt comfortable with the shot of 600 yards. Shot was perfect and I watch through the binos as elk take off after the shot. We walk back up the ridge, collect out things, eat some lunch and talk about what just happened and how we could have done it differently. We then make a gameplan on how to get to where the elk were and head that way. Sure enough, there were multiple elk bedded and the shot was good, as we have blood. We tracked for a good while, but he kept going and going. So after a couple hours we decide to back out and come back the next morning, and surely we would find him dead after the long cold night. We get back to our last known location and sure enough, we find blood and tracks, but no elk. WTF. So we make a game plan and track the elk through the snow. We tracked for another couple of miles up and down, over and under blowdowns and along the ridges. We finally caught up to him and luckily for us, was right off a trail now! Ended up only being a 3/4 miles pack out. Man these things are tough animals, to travel so far after a well placed shot! Much respect. BTW, this is our first elk.

First off, great job all around!

Second, no different cartridge would change the outcome.. that’s a great cartridge

It’s a good lesson in there is a difference between hitting them and killing them, elk need to be killed well, as this showcases well, get close enough to kill them good every time, that range is a very individual thing

 

[jthreeidaho]

I think that you did a good job following thru on the tracking and finding the animal. You just have to learn what circumstances that you are comfortable with and what kind of shots you want to take. I am what I would consider an amateur as far as hunting goes. I have been hunting for 7 years, and elk for 5. I killed my first cow this year. I try to control all of the variables that I can control when I am in the woods. I have had several interactions in the woods with other elk but I was never presented with an opportunity that i was 100% confident in my shot/circumstance. We all make choices in the woods hunting these animals. For me its about the animal and being ethical. I would never take a shot anywhere close to what you shot but that is my choice. Everyone is different as you can see from the responses. All you can do is try to get better so good on you for trying to get advice to that end.

 

[jorswift]

Thanks everyone. Somethings I learned; practice practice practice shooting and more practice. At all yardages. If we didnt practice shooting out to 600yards, the shot would have never taken place. Also, as I am thankful it all came together, I run different scenarios through my head and on maps to see if we could have had any other advantage. But its hunting, choices are made and lessons are learned.

 

[b0nes]

Atleast your on the right track with you don’t know what you don’t know. A small percentage of hunters have any business shooting 600 yards at game. If you you do this long enough that situation will go the other way and you will spend many nights thinking of how that animal went To waste and suffered and you will learn way more about yourself and hunting and the humbling experience it should be than you did on this hunt. If you cannot hit a pie plate under FIELD conditions 95 out of 100 times you have no business taking that shot. And that means an elevated heart rate.

 

[Pocoloco]

This might be true in VA but not everywhere.

My thought exactly, 212eldx out of my 300 is pushing around 2300 ft lbs at 650 yards at 9500’. Of course that is theoretical, my new sig kilo 8k with on board sensors spits out energy at impact to help you decide if you want to take the shot. The 300 shines with long heavy bullets.

 

[Pocoloco]

Atleast your on the right track with you don’t know what you don’t know. A small percentage of hunters have any business shooting 600 yards at game. If you you do this long enough that situation will go the other way and you will spend many nights thinking of how that animal went To waste and suffered and you will learn way more about yourself and hunting and the humbling experience it should be than you did on this hunt. If you cannot hit a pie plate under FIELD conditions 95 out of 100 times you have no business taking that shot. And that means an elevated heart rate.

We have a 12” steel target. We hike in the mountains or high dessert. We range, dial, shoot from quick sticks and quip clip three shots at each range. And do it again and again. My daughter and wife are close to 100 percent out to 400 with their 7mm-08, my son is about half that, he is 13 and fine motor skills are not his strength. My wife took her bull this year at 293, she hit him till he fell, but he only made it ten feet. At 600 yards that 12” steel target looks like a small dot, which makes it so much fun to ring over and over: when the wind is calm. Wind, calling the wind is the real skill

 

[Pocoloco]

That is not correct. If you look at post #19, you will see that what I compared was the 600 yard velocity shown on ericwh's dope chart (1853) to the velocity of my .357 mag. A stout load with 2400 will get 158 grain pills to or above 1900 FPS in many .357 rifles.

Speaking of factory ammo, here's the data for a factory .300 WM load:

View attachment 341632

By 600 yards, it's moving ~1750 FPS with about 1150 foot pounds of energy. That's less than the 1267 foot pounds of energy produced by a 158 grain round from the .357 I mention going 1900 FPS.

I'll reiterate my original point. By 600 yards, .300 WM is not that impressive from the perspective of terminal ballistics- so much so, in fact, that there is overlap between its effectiveness and that of .357 mag carbine.

This is the problem with many cartridge “comparisons”. I dont even run a 180 in my 3006. I run a 212eldx .673 ballistic coefficient at a mild 2551 because smallest deviation at that velocity and it carries over 1800 foot lbs at 600 yards. My 300 pushes the same bullet close to 300 fps faster and you are looking at around 2300 ft lbs at the range.

Long and heavy, that is where the 3006 and 300 shine. A 300 is plenty rifle at that range, given an animal not moving, little to no wind and a very skilled marksman. The other thing I would recommend is not trusting my “Hornady” ballistic app, I ran a kestrel and 3000bdx this season and the Hornay app is overly optimistic on estimated pressure based on altitude, the kestrel reads and computes shot based on actual measurements of conditions. Just traded in kestrel and 3000 bdx for the new kilo8k as one little tool does it all, no delay or Bluetooth connection that could drop.

 

[specneeds]

Congratulations on following up & getting the bull. 600 is a long way but modern scopes rangefinders and rifles allow good rifle shots to make much longer shots than when I started hunting. We practice off packs or sticks out to 800 yards every year but try to set up for 300 & in. This year Stopped my buddy’s gut shot cow from crossing into private neck shot at 200 - his scope knocked off zero during opening day pack out. Had to go to a backup rifle. If we hadn’t been close to start he would have missed by a foot or more.

Getting closer is better, it you can’t get closer position yourself where you can get a follow up shot. If they are standing I’m still shooting. I stopped a bull at 360 heading off public with a spine shot, original bullet hit both lungs, top of the heart & broke the off side shoulder still walking150 yards past impact. They are tough and you need to factor that in with caliber & bullet selection, I use a 300 Weatherby shooting 180 grain TTSX Barnes to get through bone if needed. Just because my 16 YO grandson can hit targets at 600 doesn’t mean he should shoot that far. My son in law is a superior rifle shot with lots of experience & can make that distance work - but passes those to get closer routinely. Good plans, good judgement & good shooting still can have less than great results- elk hunting isn’t supposed to be easy.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Good deal on the elk! Anything I would say will take bits and pieces of what's already been said so keep in mind all the great advice.

 

[Leto]

Nice elk brother.. I personally never take a shot past 400.. That’s just me though..

 

[7raptor]

Here you go...there's a 356 bull bedded in the shade of the hill in the center of this photo:

Here's zoomed in with the camera I was carrying that day, he's 440 yards away.

I was carrying my 7 RM that day and 440 is within my shooting range, but if you notice in the first picture, there's a ridge in front of that bull, meaning I could get closer.

Rather than blast away at 440, which I'm sure I could have made that shot, I chose to get to the ridge in front of the bull.

The worst thing can happen if you try to get close is you blow the stalk, the bull could move, or something along those lines. The bull may get away, it may suck to work hard and not capitalize. Worse thing about shooting 4-5-6-7-1k hundred yards is you wound a bull that you never recover. Sucks for the hunter, and sucks even worse for the elk that has to die a slow death hours, days, or weeks later.

As it turns out I stalked that bull to about 50 yards, he sensed I was there and got up from his bed and started to move off. I took a knee and killed him with a single bullet at 55-60 yards...I like my odds wayyyyyyyy better at 55-60 yards than 440. Didn't have to worry about tracking a bull all over the place, didn't have to think about doping wind, didn't have to worry about spinning a turret, only had to worry about getting him back to the truck. I could have killed that bull with my 6mm, 243, 338, 7 RM, 7-08, 30-06, 300 win, 25/06...hell even my 22-250 just as easily, rifle set up meant nothing.

Lots of calibers, really most ANY caliber is fine when you're shooting sane distances. As range increases variables creep in, don't care how much you shoot or how much you think you "know" about your rifle, wind, etc...just a fact. I've shot 2 elk at what I consider long range, and they both worked just fine but I don't like to do it. Not that I don't know HOW to make it happen, just not my bag. Judging by the amount of shooting I hear each year, I'd suspect there's a lot more that shouldn't be shooting LR at elk.

Knowing when, and more importantly when NOT to shoot, at any range, is what makes the difference between packing dead elk and chasing wounded elk. I'd rather pack dead elk.

Rifle set-ups DO NOT make up for poor decision making or poor performance at long range...period.

Bad ASS. Balls, skills, integrity.

 

[Honyock]

How the hell did people hunt elk with open sights and the ballistics of a 35 Remington using a Core-Lokt? At times I think we have a lot of shooters and less hunters. Calibers and bullets may have made hunters more efficient but not necessarily better hunters. Seems like a lot of "hunters" are more worried about their equipment than learning to ethically harvest an animal and working on their actual hunting skills. I would guess that 90% of hunters have no business shooting at an elk at 600 yards. I know that I'm not in that 10% that can and I have sent enough rounds down the barrel of a rifle to fund a third world country (I have a shooting problem). Part of ethical hunting is to know when to pull the trigger and when not to. If it's a "maybe" or "I think so" shot, I'm not taking the shot no matter how big it is. I have too much respect for the animal to try to not do everything that I can to efficiently kill that animal as quickly as possible. It sucks really bad when you wound an animal and don't recover them. If it doesn't suck, you're not a hunter.

 

[bozeman]

Amazing all of the ‘I guess others’ or ‘I wouldn’t’. To the OP, great job tracking! You know what you are comfortable with you.