Elk Rifle Advice... again....

[16Bore]

I certainly wouldn’t feel handicapped with an ‘06 or 300 yard max.

 

[rayporter]

another 30 cal fan- but i would take the big 7mm too.

my 06 got new barrel last month and i am picking it up this weekend.

 

[wind gypsy]

I like the tikka veil option in 300wsm or 7rm. I like the idea of having 5/8" threads rather than the 1/2x28 you'd need on a lite/superlite.

If you get a matching 8 twist 223 you'll find 500 yard shots on deer vital sized targets are pretty easy with the right bullets in calm conditions. Will do a lot to help with confidence and experience!

 

[NJDiverDan]

Thanks everyone for the responses so far. Still evaluating, but looking like Tikka Veil might win over the Savage, mostly due to availability but I am still giving it some time.

 

[Meedek1]

The Savage Ultralite is a bargain with Proof barrel. The 300WSM has a 24” barrel. Be my choice of the rifles you are looking at for the money. C.A. Also make a great rifle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Doc Holliday]

You may want to add the Bergara B-14 Hunter to your list to research. Made in 300 win and 7mm mag.....average weight 7.1 - 7.3 lbs. Retail as low as $659 on gunbroker.

 

[WCB]

If you think you don't need to go "that" big with a 300 win then rule out the 300WSM...they are the same thing for all intents and purposes just different action.I am partial to the 7rem as that is my go to gun....but again to me out to 500 yards 300win/300wsm same same in reality. Then throw in the 280AI that runs slightly slower than a 7rem.

I guess where I am going with this is...to me not enough difference to make a difference. Since you can reload it may open up ideas or options for you. I am also partial to Savages as I have a bunch and every single one shoots lights out with factory ammo.

Probably not much help...not sure why I am here?

 

[NJDiverDan]

Thanks again everyone. The reason 300 WSM over the 300 Win is the short action weight savings with getting nearly the same performance. It's nearly a 1/2 pound on the Christensen. I have no clue on the Tikka because there weights are all over the place one their website and do not seem to make sense. The Savage ULs are all around the same weight.

I went to the local gun shop and handled all three makes again (Tikka, Savage and Christensen) each has features that I really like, and at least one thing that I do not.

I have always liked Savage rifles and actually like the Accu stock, but it does not come with a break.

Really like the Tikka Veil action, comes with a break, but I like the Savage Trigger better.

The Christensen is nice, but I can almost buy the practice .223 for the price difference.

The last piece is neither the Tikka Veil or the Savage ULs are available locally in the calibers I want. They had the Tikka in 7 mm Mag, but I am thinking I want a new caliber, plus according to Tikka's website that comes in at 7lbs vs. the 6.5 for the 300 WSM.

Trying to get some good ballistic comparisons vs the 6.5 PRC, but feel it will just be too light for elk over a 300 WSM.

 

[Spoonbill]

Thanks again everyone. The reason 300 WSM over the 300 Win is the short action weight savings with getting nearly the same performance. It's nearly a 1/2 pound on the Christensen. I have no clue on the Tikka because there weights are all over the place one their website and do not seem to make sense. The Savage ULs are all around the same weight.

I went to the local gun shop and handled all three makes again (Tikka, Savage and Christensen) each has features that I really like, and at least one thing that I do not.

I have always liked Savage rifles and actually like the Accu stock, but it does not come with a break.

Really like the Tikka Veil action, comes with a break, but I like the Savage Trigger better.

The Christensen is nice, but I can almost buy the practice .223 for the price difference.

The last piece is neither the Tikka Veil or the Savage ULs are available locally in the calibers I want. They had the Tikka in 7 mm Mag, but I am thinking I want a new caliber, plus according to Tikka's website that comes in at 7lbs vs. the 6.5 for the 300 WSM.

Trying to get some good ballistic comparisons vs the 6.5 PRC, but feel it will just be too light for elk over a 300 WSM.

The 6.5 prc is pretty comparable to the 6.5-06, a quick google search could turn up some info. In all reality, you would be fine with either, but if it were me I’d get the 300wsm since components and ammo is readily available

 

[cgs1967]

Just bought a Sako S20 for my elk hunt next fall. Not the lightest gun but I can carry it fine.

 

[wildernessmaster]

Ok, so I am still trying to decide on the perfect mountain rifle for me, plus I kind of want to treat myself to a new rifle. It is primarily an Elk rifle, with occasional deer and antelope. I live in Idaho, so let's say shots up to 500 on game (although I need a ton of practice to get there, my personal limit now is 300).

First, I am trying to decide on a caliber. I have an older 7mm Rem Mag (savage 111) that I know is adequate for all the game I've mentioned above but to my first statement, I just want an upgrade / new rifle. So, I have been looking at 280 AI, 300 WSM and staying in 7 mm Rem Mag. Ballistically they all seem to be able to get it done. So, I am thinking it comes more down to rifle caliber availability on that one. I have seen the million posts that say go 300 win mag, but not convinced I need to go that heavy.

So the rifles I am looking at are:

Christensen Ridgeline. Comes in both 300 WSM at 6.5 lbs, 7mm Rem Mag or 280 AI both at 6.8 lbs.
Tikka Veil. Not available in 280 AI. 7mm Mag is 6.8 lbs, 300 WSM is 6.5 lbs (not confirmed weights but what I could find)
Savage Ultra light. Not available in 7 mm Mag. both 300 WSM and 280 AI coming in around 6 lbs. BUT only a 22" barrel.
Tikka Super lite. No 280 AI, 300 WSM is 5.9 lbs. No muzzle brake and not sure if one can be added with the thin barrel profile.

Kimber Mt ascent is also in the mix but the above are my top choices.


The big benefit of Tikka or even the savage other than cost is I can get a practice rifle in .223 that will have the exact same stock and trigger. I am not springing an extra 1800 for a practice Ridgeline, so the practice rifle would not be a perfect match. I can almost buy the 2 rifles for the cost of the single Ridgeline.

The last point is rifle availability. Christensen's are readily available (could pick one up today in local shop). The Savage Ultra lites seem like unicorns. I have handled one in 30-06 locally and do really like the feel. Tikka Veil would need to be ordered by can be here in a few days. Tikka Super lite are readily available, but I am thinking I would want the barrel threaded for a brake which I am assuming would take a couple weeks.


So I would love any advice from the Rokslide community on this. This is my second post, asking similar questions but I think I am narrowing down my decision and I was not looking at the 280 AI or 300 WSM previously.

Thank you!

-dan

Dan

Great line up of calibers and rifles...

Let me first say, before you make a decision go over to Nathan Fosters (ballisticstudies.com) website and read some of his articles on the calibers and guns you are considering. This guy IMHO is probably the expert on real world ballistics and utility calibers and guns.

The reason I suggest that is he is doing some load development and gun development that is very unique. For instance he is successfully loading 30-06's with 200+ gr bullets and keeping velocities with them.

Seems like you are a 7mm guy. I am a 7 and 30 caliber guy.

I am currently revamping my gun lineups toward solid "make's sense" guns and calibers... This is my lineup and reasoning...

308 and 708 in lightweight AR 10 platforms. Why? Well me personally I find the 308 as the most versatile gun around; that you can find ammo anywhere in the world; and you is mild recoling. The 708 because it is somewhat a twin to the 308 but gives me a little better distance; better BCs and easier shooting in the wind. I also take the 308/AR platform when I am heavy griz country for firepower. I have read too many bear attack reports where a bolt gun dumps all 3 (or 4 rounds) and the person is in survival mode. I plan on WW4 if one comes at me (10 rd mags - 2, I figure 3500 gr of lead might induce lead poisoning).

280 AI and 30-06 in mountain rifle weight platforms (probably a cooper or kimber MA). These will be my near magnum, reach out and touch anything; reach out and kill anything guns. Again these two are near twins. I give the 280AI the edge on wind and distance, but I give the 30-06 the edge on terminal ballistics.

Maybe 1 magnum, probably the 7 Rem mag.

That said, If I had only 1 gun to pick (I am very fortunate to be able to have this line up). I would pick either the 30-06 or 280 AI. If I plan on my hunting focus being on the larger end of the game spectrum (moose, bear, elk, buffalo...) I would go with the 06. If I plan on elk and lessor (whitetail, goats, speed goats, ground hogs ) then I would go with the 280 AI.

Gun wise, it depends... If you are going to buy a "complete blueprinted" gun - go with the cooper. You won't lose on the investment and no one has ever complained. If you don't have that cash and are going to start with a good gun and accurize it up to near blueprinted - go with a Rem 700, Winchester or Tikka. Nathan will explain why. Nathan likes the Tikkas, I have one objection. I find their magazine clearances and ejection ports are tight for the near magnum and magnum loads.

Also know if you plan on running some unique loads (such as heavier loads for the caliber) you need to look at the load data and make sure any gun you buy is going to support the COAL, especially in the magazine space. Not all caliber guns are made the same.

One thing I would NOT recommend are any of these pencil barrel guns (Tikka Super lightweight). You will regret doing so when you are working up the gun and in the field under different temp conditions.

 

[hunting1]

back when I was trying to figure out the ultimate rifle I settled on a kimber Montana 308, I love that gun. It’s taken moose, caribou and blacktail, I’d use it on an elk without hesitation.

I will vouch the Kimber .308 works well on elk too! Carries like no other!

 

[Formidilosus]

One thing I would NOT recommend are any of these pencil barrel guns (Tikka Super lightweight). You will regret doing so when you are working up the gun and in the field under different temp conditions.

Why is that? Personal experience that there are issues with “pencil barrel guns”?

 

[wildernessmaster]

I will vouch the Kimber .308 works well on elk too! Carries like no othe

Why is that? Personal experience that there are issues with “pencil barrel guns”?

Assumption: You plan on shooting more than 300 yards.

If that is not the case, then I would encourage you to go buy a pencil thin barrel gun like a Browning Hells Canyon, Tikka, or the like but in caliber 308 and kill away. That said, you may still run into some of this.

My experience with pencil thin barrels above a short action calibers (270, 30-06, 300 win mag) has taught me:
1. It will take you a lot longer to work up and train up... You can't go blasting away 3 round groups, back to back... and with magnums you probably can't even string more than 2 without letting your barrel cool. Otherwise you are going to chase rounds all over your target. They heat up quick and once they do the harmonic is off.
2. They tend to be more finicky with temp changes. More so with the heavier calibers. Grab a gun out of a hot car and run out to shoot something in really cold weather and - well - good luck. You may or may not hit it...
3. They are much more sensitive to load changes. Plan on shooting factory ammo? You might have issues with doing so at least accurately beyond 300 yards. Why? Think of a thin wire that you grab and move up and down. It doesn't take much to have the end of the wire "whipping". Now pick up a thicker stick and do it. Takes a lot more. Your barrel has a "harmonic" with each load. A thicker barrel takes more differences to change that harmonic significantly. A thinner barrel way less. (which is why (2) happens as well).

Trust me my first elk was with a pencil barrel 300 win mag. It can kill. But when I worked it up with factory ammo I burned a box and half chasing the sight in until I realized that I could not shoot more than a round (or two) and then had to let the barrel cool. Otherwise there was no way in hell I would get any groups. In fact, if I didn't let it cool, I could see them stringing in a vertical line.

General rule of thumb... the more oomph the more barrel. The longer you want to shoot, the more barrel... For practical field purposes there is a point of diminishing returns to that.

 

[brsnow]

Assumption: You plan on shooting more than 300 yards.

If that is not the case, then I would encourage you to go buy a pencil thin barrel gun like a Browning Hells Canyon, Tikka, or the like but in caliber 308 and kill away. That said, you may still run into some of this.

My experience with pencil thin barrels above a short action calibers (270, 30-06, 300 win mag) has taught me:
1. It will take you a lot longer to work up and train up... You can't go blasting away 3 round groups, back to back... and with magnums you probably can't even string more than 2 without letting your barrel cool. Otherwise you are going to chase rounds all over your target. They heat up quick and once they do the harmonic is off.
2. They tend to be more finicky with temp changes. More so with the heavier calibers. Grab a gun out of a hot car and run out to shoot something in really cold weather and - well - good luck. You may or may not hit it...
3. They are much more sensitive to load changes. Plan on shooting factory ammo? You might have issues with doing so at least accurately beyond 300 yards. Why? Think of a thin wire that you grab and move up and down. It doesn't take much to have the end of the wire "whipping". Now pick up a thicker stick and do it. Takes a lot more. Your barrel has a "harmonic" with each load. A thicker barrel takes more differences to change that harmonic significantly. A thinner barrel way less. (which is why (2) happens as well).

Trust me my first elk was with a pencil barrel 300 win mag. It can kill. But when I worked it up with factory ammo I burned a box and half chasing the sight in until I realized that I could not shoot more than a round (or two) and then had to let the barrel cool. Otherwise there was no way in hell I would get any groups. In fact, if I didn't let it cool, I could see them stringing in a vertical line.

General rule of thumb... the more oomph the more barrel. The longer you want to shoot, the more barrel... For practical field purposes there is a point of diminishing returns to that.

I have a Barrett fieldcraft.270 win that has actually encouraged me to extend my range. The accuracy and ease to shoot has made me a better shot.

 

[Spoonbill]

Assumption: You plan on shooting more than 300 yards.

If that is not the case, then I would encourage you to go buy a pencil thin barrel gun like a Browning Hells Canyon, Tikka, or the like but in caliber 308 and kill away. That said, you may still run into some of this.

My experience with pencil thin barrels above a short action calibers (270, 30-06, 300 win mag) has taught me:
1. It will take you a lot longer to work up and train up... You can't go blasting away 3 round groups, back to back... and with magnums you probably can't even string more than 2 without letting your barrel cool. Otherwise you are going to chase rounds all over your target. They heat up quick and once they do the harmonic is off.
2. They tend to be more finicky with temp changes. More so with the heavier calibers. Grab a gun out of a hot car and run out to shoot something in really cold weather and - well - good luck. You may or may not hit it...
3. They are much more sensitive to load changes. Plan on shooting factory ammo? You might have issues with doing so at least accurately beyond 300 yards. Why? Think of a thin wire that you grab and move up and down. It doesn't take much to have the end of the wire "whipping". Now pick up a thicker stick and do it. Takes a lot more. Your barrel has a "harmonic" with each load. A thicker barrel takes more differences to change that harmonic significantly. A thinner barrel way less. (which is why (2) happens as well).

Trust me my first elk was with a pencil barrel 300 win mag. It can kill. But when I worked it up with factory ammo I burned a box and half chasing the sight in until I realized that I could not shoot more than a round (or two) and then had to let the barrel cool. Otherwise there was no way in hell I would get any groups. In fact, if I didn't let it cool, I could see them stringing in a vertical line.

General rule of thumb... the more oomph the more barrel. The longer you want to shoot, the more barrel... For practical field purposes there is a point of diminishing returns to that.

Little confused by your second point. Assuming a bull barrel and a pencil barrel are the same temperature, how would putting them in the cold have different effects? Only reason I can see is that a bull barrel will retain heat longer but that would also cause issues.
example. You sight your gun in at 60 degrees. Then you warm your barrel in a hot car to say 100 degrees. The effect on the powder burn rate would be the same as a pencil barrel at 100 degrees. Taking this into account, wouldnt a thinner barrel actually be more beneficial since it will cool more quickly?

Also, barrel temp matters less that the temp of your cartridge since the cartridge is where the exothermic reaction is taking place.
Please let me know if I got this bass ackwards, I wasn’t a great physics student in highschool.

 

[Formidilosus]

My experience with pencil thin barrels above a short action calibers (270, 30-06, 300 win mag) has taught me:
1. It will take you a lot longer to work up and train up... You can't go blasting away 3 round groups, back to back... and with magnums you probably can't even string more than 2 without letting your barrel cool. Otherwise you are going to chase rounds all over your target. They heat up quick and once they do the harmonic is off.
2. They tend to be more finicky with temp changes. More so with the heavier calibers. Grab a gun out of a hot car and run out to shoot something in really cold weather and - well - good luck. You may or may not hit it...
3. They are much more sensitive to load changes. Plan on shooting factory ammo? You might have issues with doing so at least accurately beyond 300 yards. Why? Think of a thin wire that you grab and move up and down. It doesn't take much to have the end of the wire "whipping". Now pick up a thicker stick and do it. Takes a lot more. Your barrel has a "harmonic" with each load. A thicker barrel takes more differences to change that harmonic significantly. A thinner barrel way less. (which is why (2) happens as well).

As genuinely polite as I can- literally not one thing above is correct.

I generally use 10 round groups fired as fast as possible for my pencil barrels (at 100y). The range from 223 through 300 magnums.

 

[jfs82]

witchcraft

 

[Formidilosus]

Cont...

 

[Formidilosus]

Con’t....

But sometimes 20 rounds quick-





However, it’s better with 30-




Every once in a while less to please the internet-