Efficacy of Predator Management

[ThunderJack49]

I tried using chatgpt to get an idea of the effect of predator hunting in my area and this is what was returned

Output (3-year neonate effect, summed)​

• Coyotes removed (60 total): ~+2,637 neonates saved
• Black bears added (1.5 total): ~−22.5 neonates
• Mountain lions added (0.6 total): ~−27 neonates
• Wolves added (0.9 total): ~−108 neonates
• Net total (all species): ~+2,480 neonates over 3 years

Interpretation​

• The single hunter, focused on high-intensity coyote removal year-round, produces the largest measurable benefit by far: thousands of neonates saved over 3 years, even after accounting for the modest losses from occasional black bears, mountain lions, and wolves taken under legal seasons.
• The main driver is sheer numbers: removing many coyotes multiplies a relatively large per-coyote benefit.
• The losses from taking (or adding) larger predators are meaningful per animal, but because a single hunter will realistically take far fewer of those large predators, their net negative effect is small compared to many coyotes removed.

I found this interesting. And motivating.

 

[S-3 ranch]

We had 20 hunters on 15,000 acres all trying to kill any coyotes they saw and never put a dent in them, so we bought 200 snares and put them around all the places they were digging under a sheep wire fence, we put a major dent in them with snares and traps, minute we stopped natural recruitment from other places just filled the gap again, so imo a year round hard press trap and snares
Is only option

 

[mt terry d]

We had 20 hunters on 15,000 acres all trying to kill any coyotes they saw and never put a dent in them, so we bought 200 snares and put them around all the places they were digging under a sheep wire fence, we put a major dent in them with snares and traps, minute we stopped natural recruitment from other places just filled the gap again, so imo a year round hard press trap and snares
Is only option

Wouldn’t poison be even more effective ?

 

[yfarm]

6 years ago you seldom heard a gobble on my buddy's property. After 5 years of intensive trapping, especially nest predators, I have now taken 7 adult gobblers the last 4 seasons.
I have taken out nearly 250 nest predators in that time. I may not be affecting turkey populations on a macro level but I sure as hell have helped in my little corner of the world.

Have a 5000 acre lease, one of ten hunters on the lease is a turkey hunter. In an area where adults are regularly seen at the beginning no juveniles were ever seen in the summer or early fall. Started trapping raccoons in that area, after two years of regular trapping are now routinely seeing juveniles in the area.
One of the Oklahoma universities did a study with 200 acre plots to analyze quail populations. One control with no fencing, the other with a predator proof( including snakes) fence. The absence of coyotes and snakes specifically correlated with higher quail populations.
The raccoon trapper and two others regularly hunt coyotes but seem to make little difference in that population.

 

[ThunderJack49]

We had 20 hunters on 15,000 acres all trying to kill any coyotes they saw and never put a dent in them, so we bought 200 snares and put them around all the places they were digging under a sheep wire fence, we put a major dent in them with snares and traps, minute we stopped natural recruitment from other places just filled the gap again, so imo a year round hard press trap and snares
Is only option

Trapping is certainly superior. I would invest more into trapping if I had a job that allowed for it.

 

[Coyote Commander]

We had 20 hunters on 15,000 acres all trying to kill any coyotes they saw and never put a dent in them, so we bought 200 snares and put them around all the places they were digging under a sheep wire fence, we put a major dent in them with snares and traps, minute we stopped natural recruitment from other places just filled the gap again, so imo a year round hard press trap and snares
Is only option

Rarely in the coyote world is “more” better.



And I’ve said it before, if just half of the shooters out there killed just half of the coyotes they claim they do, there wouldn’t hardly be a coyote left out there!

 

[WRO]

Wouldn’t poison be even more effective ?

Back when it was legal, it was deadly effective.

Snaring is the second best option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[204_ruger]

I trap a 5000-acre hunting club. I took 53 coyotes off it trapping in 1 season. I was checking traps after 12 hr work shift. I was trapping other animals too.
Bobcat, grey fox, coons, opossums, and skunks. It made a difference. This is the first yr. I have seen turkey polts. Seeing more quail and rabbits too. In the pass. But the land has got a ton of hogs. I also caught a few hogs in coyote sets. That was when I first started trapping that land. Coyotes killed and eat all the hog in less than 24 hrs. U can trap or hunt coyotes, bobcats, coons, Grey and red fox, opossums, and skunks yr around. Here on private land 24/7 365. To help deer, turkeys, and small game out. I will start trapping again in October.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Rarely in the coyote world is “more” better.



And I’ve said it before, if just half of the shooters out there killed just half of the coyotes they claim they do, there wouldn’t hardly be a coyote left out there!

That’s not really true honestly.

We spent 10 years doing depredation for ground squirrels and coyotes, shooting nearly daily on ranches in Northern California.

We had over 10,000 acres at our disposal and used side by sides and pickups and were incredibly effective at killing them.

The coyotes, while you can keep the numbers down quite well, still find a way to have enough of them to still give us daily kills. We even eradicated dozens of dens over the years killing 6-10 pups per den.

Life still finds a way with that much terrain and plentiful food and water supplies.

 

[Pilsner]

6 years ago you seldom heard a gobble on my buddy's property. After 5 years of intensive trapping, especially nest predators, I have now taken 7 adult gobblers the last 4 seasons.
I have taken out nearly 250 nest predators in that time. I may not be affecting turkey populations on a macro level but I sure as hell have helped in my little corner of the world.

We have had much the same results. Ours is heavy Rx burn/habitat program and a half-a$$ed predator management program. Though we try to concentrate our efforts around and right before nesting season for max benefit. If you can either knock back the predators or improve habitat even a little bit you can work wonders. I can't help but think that doing both at the same time and doing it well would be game changing!

 

[Pilsner]

Half measures = half results.
Poison works.
Helluva lot cheaper than paying for planes and snipers.

And what if you care about the lethal effects on "by catch"? Poison sounds promising and effective until you apply it to reality and the 2nd and 3rd order effects from it.
Management isn't mass slaughter or denuding the landscape of everything that might eat a dead critter.

Although I do appreciate the results not methods approach to some things myself.

 

[Pilsner]

Fourth point:

It takes *time* for that increased fecundity amongst the remaining predators to manifest itself, and in that timeframe, prey can enjoy better survival rates. And to whatever extent you continue to remove the predators on a recurring basis, you can reduce predation, as long as you long-term do the work to maintain a population level that produces less than maximum predation overall.

A lot of times when you see people pushing the 'whatever's left just breeds more' angle, they ignore the time factor. Sure, the population will bounce back, but in the intervening time period you've reduced some predation pressure and if you do that consistently it absolutely can and will have a positive impact on prey populations. Pretty much all wildlife management activity is temporary and must be done on a recurring basis to have any lasting impact.

I grew up in the south at the end of the era of quail hunting as sort of the everyman's pastime. Quail are complex little animals and doubly so when you start talking about removing nest predators where one quail nest predator might also predate other nest predators. The hawk that grandpa might have shot once upon a time, was going to eat a snake the next day, that is now left to eat quail eggs. That stuff gets complicated. I now live in a hardwood-dominated area where quail sadly aren't really a thing (we've hatched wild birds on our farm over the years, but it's been at least 2-3 years now and I assume they are gone forever since the nearest potential suitable habitat is now allowed to grow past the stages at which quail could really live in it, and I can't fix that). But for larger animals especially, I believe predator management is pretty cut and dried as a solid 'win'......if everyone is on the same page about what they want out of a wildlife population. We shoot coyotes and armadillos on sight (armadillos are dense around here and it's common in early fall to kill multiple in an afternoon of squirrel hunting) and we (the kids and I) actively trap coyote/bobcat/raccoon/opossum. We have chickens and other livestock here - cows, pigs, goats - which may skew my stance a bit.

Growing up near some Amish farms in the Midwest I can attest to the local effectiveness of year-round trapping and predator shooting. Everything from coyotes to raptors or skunks. Often regardless of game laws. So, their farm critters had low predation losses which was great for them. The downside was that they were often as lax with game laws on everything else as they were with predators, so the game animals didn't exactly prosper either, but that is another story.
At any rate it impressed upon me how well sustained local predator eradication via trapping and shooting could work.

 

[Chris in TN]

So I mentioned the dynamics of one nest predator eating another earlier in this thread.

Got this photo today:

 

[mt terry d]

And what if you care about the lethal effects on "by catch"? Poison sounds promising and effective until you apply it to reality and the 2nd and 3rd order effects from it.

What exactly are the actual 2nd and 3rd order effects of modern methods of coyote poisoning?

Management isn't mass slaughter or denuding the landscape of everything that might eat a dead critter

Neither do I

Although I do appreciate the results not methods approach to some things myself.

It all depends on the degree of negative effects of the method
That's why I asked about the effects of modern poisoning methods.