Easton HIT Inserts Pulling out of Black Eagle Rampages

[TX_Diver]

Anyone else have this problem?

I built 6 axis and 6 rampage arrows about 2 months ago and so far 3/6 HITs have pulled out of the rampages and at least one more is on it's way as I can spin the insert but not pull it out. No issues with the axis so far.

I used the Easton 2 part epoxy. Took me probably 15-20 minutes total. I did the Axis first. All arrows cured for 24 hours before shooting...

Surface prep was pretty light (q-tip in alcohol) but was the same for the axis and the rampage. If I screwed something up I feel like I'd see it on the axis arrows too? I worked for a few years through school building and fixing boats so I'm pretty confident in my epoxy skills generally...

 

[DeerCatcherUT/CO]

I have had at least a dozen inserts pull out when I shoot into bags and have also twisted them loose when trying to line my broadheads up with my veins. I feel your pain. Just got some iron will hiit inserts for my hunting arrows but won’t shoot them for targets just because they’re so damn pricey so I haven’t tested them yet. I’m interested if you can find a fix. I like my rampages though so I guess I’ll just stick to foam instead of bags and add some rubber washers between the Broadhead and arrow so I don’t twist them loose

 

[TX_Diver]

So far I’ve had em pull out in foam and a bag target...

Should’ve put that in original post. May try to put some different glues on there when I re-build em.

 

[MattB]

You probably need better prep on the shaft and inserts.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I use hot melt and haven’t had an issue. Did some with Easton epoxy and ruined an arrow trying to get it out. I used alcohol on a q tip to clean everything. Pretty easy.

 

[madkaw284]

Did you clean the components and inside of the shafts with acetone? I can’t speak for the HIT’s personally because I’ve never used them, but I lightly sand/scuff inserts and inside of shafts with 300 sand paper then thoroughly wipe everything with acetone.
Maybe the black eagles had a little more residual stuff from the factory left on there.

 

[Elkhntr08]

I run a .22 brass bush in my FMJ and Axis shafts before cleaning with acetone. Never had a problem.

 

[TX_Diver]

Did you clean the components and inside of the shafts with acetone? I can’t speak for the HIT’s personally because I’ve never used them, but I lightly sand/scuff inserts and inside of shafts with 300 sand paper then thoroughly wipe everything with acetone.
Maybe the black eagles had a little more residual stuff from the factory left on there.

I did with alcohol.

I used Goat Tuff Insert glue on the standard Black Eagle Halfserts last year and only had 1 pull out when trying to get it back through a 2x4. Not sure that stuff would give me enough working time for an HIT...

I'll try acetone and a bore brush when I re-glue them and see if the results are better.

 

[Billy Goat]

Try acetone instead of the alcohol. I use a q-tip one side wet, then follow up with the other end dry, let stand point end down for 15-20 minutes. I think I lost 1-2 points in my rampages with hot melt. Haven't lost any that I used gorilla super glue on.

 

[5MilesBack]

I never had a problem with the Rampages and HIT's but GT Kinetics seem to be hit and miss as far as HIT's pulling out.

 

[madkaw284]

Yeah, try the acetone and the bore brush. Also not a bad idea to sand your components just to get a good crosshatch pattern on em. Just allows for better surface adhesion.

 

[TX_Diver]

Yeah, try the acetone and the bore brush. Also not a bad idea to sand your components just to get a good crosshatch pattern on em. Just allows for better surface adhesion.

That's a good idea too. Lot easier to sand an insert than the inside of the shaft.

 

[Bill V]

Depending on the arrows, the inside diameter can be smooth as glass. I've discussed this with the Easton engineers and scratching up the bore is recommended to give the epoxy something to bite into. You can use a .22 caliber brass bore brush for this. We are about to start selling a steel insertion tool with a brass brush attachment on the backside in addition to our hardened steel and titanium HIT inserts. Here is my install process:

1. Cut and square the arrow
2. Attach the brass brush to the insert tool, push into the arrow to the full length of the brush, rotate once around, then pull out while rotating.
3. Clean the inside of the arrow with isopropyl alcohol on a Q-tip and also the HIT inserts. Let it dry.
4. Remove nock from arrow when installing solid core HIT inserts (50, 75, 100 grain)
5. Empty complete contents of HIT two part epoxy and mix thoroughly.
6. Coat the rear, grooved end of the HIT insert on the outside diameter all the way around starting at the very back for about 1/2 inch. Avoid getting epoxy on the inside diameter of the HIT insert.
7. Insert the HIT insert into the arrow shaft, rotating as you move it inward. A bead of epoxy should be pushing out and coating the insert. (If this doesn't happen, more epoxy is needed). Stop with about 1/8 inch of the insert sticking out of the arrow and wipe off the excess epoxy.
8. Use the HIT insertion tool to slowly push the HIT insert to the correct depth inside the arrow. By removing the tool slowly and rotating it, you can avoid creating a vaccum and sucking back a solid core insert.

7. Wipe away any epoxy on the end of the arrow and on the insertion tool.

8. Leave the nock out and keep the arrow horizontal for 24 hours until fully cured.

Advanced check before cure: Use the depth gauge end of a micrometer set to .458" for standard (.387" for Deep Six) and run it into the end of each arrow to make sure none of the HIT inserts pulled back out. Clean the micrometer with acetone to remove any epoxy afterwards.

 

[TX_Diver]

That's pretty much my process minus scratching up the inside of the shaft. That tool looks great. I will order one when I get my next set of collars from you.

Would you mind sharing some info on the stainless HITs you sell vs Brass? Obviously stainless is much more expensive, do you see different results or any functional improvement with it?

 

[whitetail88arch]

Black eagle specifically says not to use Isopropyl alcohol. My buddy had a problem with that on his rampages


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[TX_Diver]

Black eagle specifically says not to use Isopropyl alcohol. My buddy had a problem with that on his rampages


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Hmmm. I missed that one. I know they don't condone using hot melt. But hadn't seen their note on alcohol.

I guess I could always use water and just give em a day or 2 to dry.

 

[Bill V]

That's pretty much my process minus scratching up the inside of the shaft. That tool looks great. I will order one when I get my next set of collars from you.

Would you mind sharing some info on the stainless HITs you sell vs Brass? Obviously stainless is much more expensive, do you see different results or any functional improvement with it?

Aluminum and brass are both pretty soft and 3-4 times lower strength than the hardened steel (25-100 grain) and grade 5 titanium (15 grain) materials that we use for our HIT inserts. This only becomes an issue on a really hard impact where the head can be driven back in, deform the threads in the insert, and cause runout and/or arrow damage. Our Impact Collar alone helps this a lot, but adding a high strength HIT adds additional strength.

 

[Beendare]

It has to be the inside of the Rampage shaft- too smooth or some residual mold release. The insert, shaft and glue all worked in the axis.

FWIW, i’ve never had an insert pull out of an axis shaft in three decades. Did you use Isopropyl alcohol? Rubbing alcohol is not a good cleaner.

I wouldnt use acetone, The Easton engineers told me acetone can weaken the resin in a carbon shaft.

___

 

[TX_Diver]

Aluminum and brass are both pretty soft and 3-4 times lower strength than the hardened steel (25-100 grain) and grade 5 titanium (15 grain) materials that we use for our HIT inserts. This only becomes an issue on a really hard impact where the head can be driven back in, deform the threads in the insert, and cause runout and/or arrow damage. Our Impact Collar alone helps this a lot, but adding a high strength HIT adds additional strength.

Reasonable enough. I like the idea of an impact collar on the HIT system. Not sure I’ll spring for the SS inserts but will definitely keep buying collars. Thanks!

 

[TX_Diver]

It has to be the inside of the Rampage shaft- too smooth or some residual mold release. The insert, shaft and glue all worked in the axis.

FWIW, i’ve never had an insert pull out of an axis shaft in three decades. Did you use Isopropyl alcohol? Rubbing alcohol is not a good cleaner.

I wouldnt use acetone, The Easton engineers told me acetone can weaken the resin in a carbon shaft.

___

I used isopropyl I think. Didn’t use acetone. I don’t see short term application causing damage but have been trying to figure out an alternate way anyways. I agree it’s probably something related to the molding or prep process