Easton HIT Inserts Pulling out of Black Eagle Rampages

[Brendan]

Honestly, I've never been able to get a HIT insert out with that two part epoxy if I tried. I've hammered a rod down the shaft, drill bit trick. Not one, ever and I've broken a shaft or two trying.

My guess is residue on the inside of the shaft, or something up with the epoxy although epoxy doesn't seem likely if they stuck in the Axis.

I wouldnt use acetone, The Easton engineers told me acetone can weaken the resin in a carbon shaft.

Out of curiosity - were you asking about wiping down, soaking a shaft? Not that specific? I guess it could be resin composition, or older arrow resins, but Gold Tip says to go ahead and use Acetone. Check 4:20 here (And the big ass bottle of it on the table ):

I Definitely wouldn't leave it soaking in a bottle of the stuff myself though, but have no problem using it for cleaning residue / wiping down. Use it on every arrow as part of my prep.

 

[TX_Diver]

Honestly, I've never been able to get a HIT insert out with that two part epoxy if I tried. I've hammered a rod down the shaft, drill bit trick. Not one, ever and I've broken a shaft or two trying.

My guess is residue on the inside of the shaft, or something up with the epoxy although epoxy doesn't seem likely if they stuck in the Axis.



Out of curiosity - were you asking about wiping down, soaking a shaft? Not that specific? I guess it could be resin composition, or older arrow resins, but Gold Tip says to go ahead and use Acetone. Check 4:20 here (And the big ass bottle of it on the table ):

I Definitely wouldn't leave it soaking in a bottle of the stuff myself though, but have no problem using it for cleaning residue / wiping down. Use it on every arrow as part of my prep.

I think it has to be a residue as well. Doesn't make sense that the axis would be fine if it was an epoxy issue.

 

[paxamus]

I had the exact same thing happen to me with my Black Eagle X Impacts! They told me not to use acetone or alcohol to clean ( first time that I haven't) and my inserts came out. Arrows fly great and I really like them, but I'm going to lightly use some acetone on the inside and have some of the Bishop Archery Cold Fusion 72 hour epoxy on the way. I think that the arrow cant soak in acetone, but a quick clean shouldn't hurt (my opinion- for what it's worth)

 

[TX_Diver]

I had the exact same thing happen to me with my Black Eagle X Impacts! They told me not to use acetone or alcohol to clean ( first time that I haven't) and my inserts came out. Arrows fly great and I really like them, but I'm going to lightly use some acetone on the inside and have some of the Bishop Archery Cold Fusion 72 hour epoxy on the way. I think that the arrow cant soak in acetone, but a quick clean shouldn't hurt (my opinion- for what it's worth)

I agree. I've used Acetone on other black eagles (lightly not soaking) with no issues. Think I'm gonna do the same on the next batch. Another one is loose which makes for 4/6 now.

 

[Bill V]

I talked to Randy from Black Eagle. They don't recommend alcohol or acetone for cleaning. He said just a dry wipe of the surface will give the best bond. Based on this, for Black Eagle arrows, I would score the inside of the arrow with a brass bore brush and then just wipe the inside with a dry Q-tip to remove some of the debris. Also, we just added the hardened steel install tool kit to our website.

https://www.ironwilloutfitters.com/gear/hit-installation-kit/

 

[Brendan]

I talked to Randy from Black Eagle. They don't recommend alcohol or acetone for cleaning. He said just a dry wipe of the surface will give the best bond. Based on this, for Black Eagle arrows, I would score the inside of the arrow with a brass bore brush and then just wipe the inside with a dry Q-tip to remove some of the debris. Also, we just added the hardened steel install tool kit to our website.

https://www.ironwilloutfitters.com/gear/hit-installation-kit/

Did he say why?

Honestly, I've heard Randy say some things that just don't hold water related to not so detailed testing practices when it comes to arrows and penetration, so I'd want more data or reasoning before I take him at his word.

 

[Gumbo]

I've been using HITs w/ Rampages for the last several seasons and recently had some pull out too. I've always used Goat Tuff rubberized glue and never had one come loose, but with these I did some with AAE rubberized which set WAY too fast and I couldn't get them in fast enough, and then finished with Easton epoxy. Not sure if it was one or both that were breaking loose. I use alcohol to clean mine, I tried acetone but i felt that it was actually breaking down the carbon, the cloth I was wiping with was coming back very black and the carbon was grey after wiping them down (I didn't soak them).

 

[TX_Diver]

I've been using HITs w/ Rampages for the last several seasons and recently had some pull out too. I've always used Goat Tuff rubberized glue and never had one come loose, but with these I did some with AAE rubberized which set WAY too fast and I couldn't get them in fast enough, and then finished with Easton epoxy. Not sure if it was one or both that were breaking loose. I use alcohol to clean mine, I tried acetone but i felt that it was actually breaking down the carbon, the cloth I was wiping with was coming back very black and the carbon was grey after wiping them down (I didn't soak them).

I've got an old rampage that I cracked last year. I'll do some "testing" with acetone and see what happens whenever I get around to re-building

 

[Gumbo]

I've got an old rampage that I cracked last year. I'll do some "testing" with acetone and see what happens whenever I get around to re-building

I will be interested to hear what you think. I'm definitely not sure the acetone was doing damage, but it was enough of a concern to my OCD, anxiety-ridden mind that I haven't done it since. It actually made me start using wraps so I could refletch without solvents or excess scraping.

 

[Beendare]

...
I Definitely wouldn't leave it soaking in a bottle of the stuff myself though, but have no problem using it for cleaning residue / wiping down. Use it on every arrow as part of my prep.

Yeah, I don't want to repeat bad info.....it was many years ago [maybe 20] at Shot show and the Easton engineer told me, "Best not to use solvents like Mec or Acetone as it can damage the resins used in arrow construction...its best to use Isopropyl Alcohol" To the best of my recollection anyway....

Things could be different now as I know a bunch of guys that clean these carbon shafts with Acetone and don't have problems. I don't have problems with Iso Alcohol....so no reason to change.

_______

 

[Billy Goat]

I cleaned the graphics off my BE carnivores with acetone. Maybe it wasn't the best thing to do but I haven't seen any ill effects from it. I wouldn't soak an arrow in it, but putting it on a paper towel and cleaning a shaft I haven't had issues with.

 

[Bill V]

Did he say why?

We just traded a few short emails so I didn't get all the details. Acetone can dissolve some resins, so I personally don't use it to clean arrows. Isopropyl alcohol is pretty safe in my experience, but unless you know the arrow has something on it that needs to be cleaned off, a dry wipe as Randy recommended is probably fine.

 

[5MilesBack]

I cleaned the graphics off my BE carnivores with acetone. Maybe it wasn't the best thing to do but I haven't seen any ill effects from it.

I did the same thing with my GT Kinetic XT 200's. There's a bunch of them that aren't close to original specs now (spine and straightness) and I just thought it was the arrows........but maybe it was caused by the acetone??????

 

[WakePraySlay]

You can take a little sand paper and scuff up the insert for the epoxy to hold better. Just a few Even scuffs don’t get crazy. Then acetone on a soft bristle brush to the inside of the shaft. And then acetone on the insert. Never had a HIT insert come off out of 4 dozen arrows.

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

I've had the exact same issue with the BE Rampage. I've tried scoring the inside of the shaft with a bore bush like Bill V recommends above then cleaning the inside of the shaft (and insert) with acetone. I've also tried cleaning with alcohol with the same results. I've tried Easton HIT epoxy, AAE 24 hr epoxy, and JB Weld slow cure all with the same results. Some inserts would break free and spin when I wrenched down on a broadhead and some would hold until a semi hard impact. I'm convinced it's the shaft and not a prep issue as I've built dozens of Easton Axis and FMJ shafts and never had an insert come loose in one of them. I'm going to try not using any cleaner and just using a dry Q tip like Bill V suggests and if that doesn't work I'll have to go a different route.

 

[TX_Diver]

I've had the exact same issue with the BE Rampage. I've tried scoring the inside of the shaft with a bore bush like Bill V recommends above then cleaning the inside of the shaft (and insert) with acetone. I've also tried cleaning with alcohol with the same results. I've tried Easton HIT epoxy, AAE 24 hr epoxy, and JB Weld slow cure all with the same results. Some inserts would break free and spin when I wrenched down on a broadhead and some would hold until a semi hard impact. I'm convinced it's the shaft and not a prep issue as I've built dozens of Easton Axis and FMJ shafts and never had an insert come loose in one of them. I'm going to try not using any cleaner and just using a dry Q tip like Bill V suggests and if that doesn't work I'll have to go a different route.

The one's that spin but won't come out are driving me nuts right now!!! Most start like that then eventually pull out.

 

[Kai Truax]

I’ve used the Easton axis arrows with Easton inserts and a couple of my inserts came out out trying to pull it out of a target.

 

[OutdoorsSD]

Good information. I had a few standard size brass inserts pull out of my BEA Outlaws. I used Devcon's 2 ton epoxy to adhere them. After they pulled out I ran a .22 bore (not a snug fit in my case) brass brush inside the shafts to remove any excess epoxy, as well as to rough up the inner surface in hopes of improved adhesion. After doing this I have had no issues with my inserts. Hopefully you have the same results.

 

[Billy Goat]

I did the same thing with my GT Kinetic XT 200's. There's a bunch of them that aren't close to original specs now (spine and straightness) and I just thought it was the arrows........but maybe it was caused by the acetone??????

Didn't see this response until now.

Don't know, I haven't checked them since building them, I haven't had issues with accuracy. If I see any weakness/straightness in them that would definitely be another data point in all this that may be shouldn't be using acetone. But a lot are hunting arrows and don't get shot as much as the practice arrows.

I'll get them out and check them again.

I'm surprised you had issues with the gold tips, they seem to be a really consistent arrow anymore. This coming from someone who a dozen years ago swore I'd never shoot them again.

 

[camping1601]

I take a piece of med. grit sand paper and roll it so it fits inside the shaft. Twist it a few turns to rough the inside and give the Epoxy something to bite to. Clean inside of shaft with Acetone before gluing.