Eastern MT Upland Birds - First week vs. second

[S.Clancy]

Montana about to pass some new regs. Residents only for the first two weeks of September.

I was just gonna post this. Also looking at limiting license time by NR's.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Probably a long time coming. Too many retirees spending months on end shooting limit after limit.

 

[406flyfish]

Will be attending the Feb 16th meeting.

 

[S.Clancy]

Probably a long time coming. Too many retirees spending months on end shooting limit after limit.

Yea, they need to limit the amount of time a license is good for NR

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Yea, they need to limit the amount of time a license is good for NR

I'd like them to do that with Sage grouse here. Or at least do a SG stamp just to see how many folks are hunting them

 

[406flyfish]

 

[Dos Perros]

Probably a long time coming. Too many retirees spending months on end shooting limit after limit.

Is it a drain on the resource?

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Is it a drain on the resource?

Probably depends on how many limits and how long they stay. But I could see how locals could take offense to such behavior.

 

[Dos Perros]

Probably depends on how many limits and how long they stay. But I could see how locals could take offense to such behavior.

Do they take offense to folks eating in their restaurants, shopping in their grocery stores, filling up at their gas stations?

 

[S.Clancy]

Do they take offense to folks eating in their restaurants, shopping in their grocery stores, filling up at their gas stations?

Yes....

I imagine it has mostly to do with how crowded public land areas are then. I don't know why they didn't make the same distinction for pheasant opener. Places like Glasgow, Malta, Plentywood are overrun the first week of pheasant season.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Do they take offense to folks eating in their restaurants, shopping in their grocery stores, filling up at their gas stations?

I'm not saying all the people that go to Montana hunt for months on end, but some do, obviously. Apparently it's gotten to the point where the revenue is no longer worth the disrespectful (perceived) behavior. Prime example was a case back in 2016 where a forum hero got caught exceeding possession limits, poaching out of season, etc.

I doubt it would have an overall impact on bird numbers, but locally absolutely.

 

[Dos Perros]

I'm not saying all the people that go to Montana hunt for months on end, but some do, obviously. Apparently it's gotten to the point where the revenue is no longer worth the disrespectful (perceived) behavior. Prime example was a case back in 2016 where a forum hero got caught exceeding possession limits, poaching out of season, etc.

I doubt it would have an overall impact on bird numbers, but locally absolutely.

You're talking about Roy from Arizona I bet?

I get it, kinda. I've been up to Scobey early, this was 2008 ish, and there were folks around. Then we started going more central Montana and later and we always had the run of the place.

To be clear I think some sort of limitations on NR's are okay. I think limiting total take would be more tolerable than limiting time.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

You're talking about Roy from Arizona I bet?

I get it, kinda. I've been up to Scobey early, this was 2008 ish, and there were folks around. Then we started going more central Montana and later and we always had the run of the place.

To be clear I think some sort of limitations on NR's are okay. I think limiting total take would be more tolerable than limiting time.

I agree

 

[VA2MT]

You're talking about Roy from Arizona I bet?

I get it, kinda. I've been up to Scobey early, this was 2008 ish, and there were folks around. Then we started going more central Montana and later and we always had the run of the place.

To be clear I think some sort of limitations on NR's are okay. I think limiting total take would be more tolerable than limiting time.

if you hunt central Montana nowadays you definitely don’t have the “run of the place” anymore. It’s no different than eastern Montana now.

 

[Dos Perros]

if you hunt central Montana nowadays you definitely don’t have the “run of the place” anymore. It’s no different than eastern Montana now.

Is that the case in October?

 

[VA2MT]

Is that the case in October?

Definitely the case. With a fall like this year it was that way through December.

 

[KurtR]

Dang 9800 people coming to bird hunt that place must be crowded.... were down to 73000 ish from the glory years of 100k

According to Fish, Wildlife & Parks data, nonresident upland bird hunter numbers have increased 50% in the last five years, climbing from 6,300 to 9,800. Of these, 81% hunt one to seven days, 12% hunt eight to 14 days — so 93% under 14 days — 6% hunt 15 to 30 days and 1% hunt more than 30 days

 

[huntineveryday]

I grew up in southwest Nebraska, which is usually publicized as the best part of the state for pheasants. It also gets its fair share of NR hunters. Growing up we hated it when those NR hunters that rolled in and "overhunted  our spots". Having hunted South Dakota for pheasants as a NR, you can really feel that the state did a great job of promoting the economic benefits of NR hunters in the small communities a couple decades ago. I'm a little older now and I see my small hometown continuing to slowly die. I can also see several businesses and small farmers that would benefit from a town full of NR's buying lunch, or gas, or paying $100 a gun to hunt that crp buffer strip that was planted on the dryland sidehill that always washed out and never yielded as much. But they never saw the opportunity in front of them and continue to look as NR hunters as a problem.

Now South Dakota and Montana (or Nebraska) might be apples and pineapples, but if NR upland hunters are increasing, there is an opportunity for small businesses and farmers to capitalize on that and grow it. It would take investment in habitat and projects to increase bird numbers, and also forward thinking rather than a knee-jerk response to shut out NR hunters. It could also provide a great financial resource to small town businesses and farmers have been waiting for, and an overall increase in habitat and bird numbers for the next several decades. See the opportunity, grow the resource, and a decade from now you could have more birds, more access, and a financial impact in those areas rather than continued finger pointing at NR's.

 

[Luis]

I went to a meeting to hear the reasons for the proposed rule changes were.
Reasons given:
NR bird dog trainers were training dogs before the season opened. On opening day the NR dog owners were joining the trainer and getting their limits because the trainer knew exactly where the birds were because he spent weeks training the new bird dogs on the birds.
Proposed Rule change:
Limit days for bird dog training and not let the NR's just come join their dogs and trainer to limit out each day on opening week.
I went looking for facts, and my observation was:
I spoke with a dog trainer from MI with a travel trailer and dog kennels training bird dogs for his clients in Eastern MT. He had 12 dogs. I drove further down the gravel road and saw more camps with dog kennels.
There are probably a couple hundred dogs being trained on wild birds in MT by NR trainers.
My personal conclusion:
The residents asking for rule changes have valid reasons.

 

[KurtR]

I went to a meeting to hear the reasons for the proposed rule changes were.
Reasons given:
NR bird dog trainers were training dogs before the season opened. On opening day the NR dog owners were joining the trainer and getting their limits because the trainer knew exactly where the birds were because he spent weeks training the new bird dogs on the birds.
Proposed Rule change:
Limit days for bird dog training and not let the NR's just come join their dogs and trainer to limit out each day on opening week.
I went looking for facts, and my observation was:
I spoke with a dog trainer from MI with a travel trailer and dog kennels training bird dogs for his clients in Eastern MT. He had 12 dogs. I drove further down the gravel road and saw more camps with dog kennels.
There are probably a couple hundred dogs being trained on wild birds in MT by NR trainers.
My personal conclusion:
The residents asking for rule changes have valid reasons.

Why don’t they make training dogs on public land illegal. That’s what they do here.