Eastern MT??? Thoughts?

[cornfedkiller]

I would definitely hunt Montana deer less often to have a better hunt. I came away from my 2021 feeling like FWP had done something damn near criminal selling me the tag, it was so bad compared to 2018.

This one spot, I saw probably 100 deer in 2018, and then in 2020 saw a couple dozen but killed a nice buck, and then in 2021 I think we saw 6. I do think what I saw could have been geographically isolated, and we should have moved an hour or two, but we just kept bouncing around this area hitting spots I knew and finding very few deer and zero mature bucks.

Same here.

My normal partners couldn't go in 2021 so I asked another friend if he wanted to go.. He'll probably think twice if I ever ask him to go on a trip again.

 

[idelkslayer]

I don't have a dog in the fight or any experience in the area. But after reading through the comments and looking at this chart I have a conclusion.

View attachment 523337

There was a bubble from 2015 to 2020 where the population grew dramatically and everyone experienced great hunting and everyone reset their baseline for what's normal. Then the population declined back to pre-bubble levels and everyone forgot that's what used to be normal and now they hate everything. Or people started hunting the area in 2016 or 2017 when Newberg made it cool and never knew what it was like just 3 years before.

 

[mtwarden]

Definitely a few bubbles here and there no doubt, but go back 25 years or so and there is definitely a larger trend downward.

It's not just Eastern Montana, most of the Mountain West is seeing pretty dramatic decreases in their mule deer populations. No single factor (although tough winters have to be right up there), but definitely a decline overall.

Humans can't control the weather, but as populations go on the decline we can control harvest, to a degree at least.

 

[wind gypsy]

Are there any anticipated changes for 2024 or is it already too late in the cycle?

There's a State specific issues forum on hunttalk where there is frequent info on season setting and associated issues. My understanding is there is not much for meaningful proposed changes in region 7.

 

[Deano0686]

Here are the numbers from FWP - estimates actually, because they don't seem to want mandatory reporting.

View attachment 633083

It is much more complicated than simply looking at a few numbers or that survey. I've hunted R7 for the past eight years and this was by far the worst in quality and quantity. Some drastic changes are needed but not sure what. I'm all set to take some short term losses for long term gains.

My question to that would be where are they getting these numbers? I’ve taken two bucks in eastern Montana over the last three years and I’ve never once been called to complete a harvest survey. I also know of two other Montana hunters who have killed multiple bucks also never been called for a harvest survey. Just off that extremely small sample size I’m saying these numbers are not remotely close

 

[Scottf270]

I get called nearly every year. I don't understand why they don't have an electronic check in process.

 

[Deano0686]

I get called nearly every year. I don't understand why they don't have an electronic check in process.

It makes zero sense why they don’t. But then again montana fwp pretty much makes zero sense ever

 

[Lawnboi]

With the fur trade being crap guys are not killing the predators out there either.

I’ll trade 5 dead coyotes for a point!

Need to get out there and shoot some of them.

Unfortunately I think they are now beyond just cutting doe tags. I probably won’t go back for a while for deer.

 

[mt terry d]

Human greed really has no limits.

If the regs say it's legal for each hunter to shoot 5 (or however many) deer or elk or wolves or ducks are we not supposed to infer that the herd/flock not only can handle it but that it's necessary? How many duck or pheasant hunters only shoot one or two if the bag limit is ten?

That's not human greed. That's pi$$ poor game management done by "experts" we pay and trust to ensure the health of the resource and hunting opportunities for all of us and future generations.

 

[ProStaffSteve]

If the regs say it's legal for each hunter to shoot 5 (or however many) deer or elk or wolves or ducks are we not supposed to infer that the herd/flock not only can handle it but that it's necessary? How many duck or pheasant hunters only shoot one or two if the bag limit is ten?

That's not human greed. That's pi$$ poor game management done by "experts" we pay and trust to ensure the health of the resource and hunting opportunities for all of us and future generations.

I hear you. In lots of cases, things are managed well. But often our experts dont know or more likely cant change fast enough to fix what needs fixing. In Minnesota sunfish limits have been pushed down from 100-50 per person, to 25, to 15, now 5 per person per day is the norm on many lakes. due to lots of changing environments & pressures, but I still think greed plays into it. one person having one good day and keeping 100 fish is realistically unimportant if one guy keeps 5 each day for 365 days. these systems and rule bodies simply fail, time after time. Its hard for dead mule deer to raise a voice. panfish just being a matrix that is easy to comprehend. big game is far more touchy and harder to navigate.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I hunted eastern MT from 2010-2013. Lots of good hunts, even back then guys were talking about how down it was. Reading these recent reports is just plain depressing.

 

[ManyBullets]

The weather is not the issue. MT has had periodic droughts and bad winters forever.

The issue is too many tags, population growth, pounding does and basically unlimited rut hunting. It's a lot easier to be successful with a new PRC with a fancy scope and a dial for people to lob shots at 1,000 yards. Maybe it's time to go back to old iron sights instead of scopes?

FWP is about the $
Their management is a joke, data is unreliable at best, and the lip service they give the public is hot trash.
Quit killing does, limit the tags and shorten the seasons. The deer will come back. Unfortunately FWP is a politically managed crack addict addicted to the NR money that pours in to fund their operation so none of that will happen.

 

[GoBig]

I got back from Eastern Montana last week. Weather was warm but bucks were rutting. I have been 5-6 times is all but things have changed dramatically. The first time I went there were bucks and does all over and no people, at least where we were at. Since then it has become less bucks, does, and 10-20 times more people. I hunted for 5 days, saw probably 8 bucks a day or more hiking and glassing and nothing to get excited about, but everyone around me was smoking 18" 4 points. The amount of people was disheartening, seeing guys filling doe tags with young does was disheartening. I came home, will eat the tag. It does make me wonder what it was like 20 years ago, and it makes me wonder what it could be like if the numbers were limited.

 

[j_volt]

From a nonresident, cutting nonresident doe tags to 0 seems like a no brainer.

I have been three times (2020, 2021, and 2022). I have seen less deer each subsequent year.

 

[Deano0686]

From a nonresident, cutting nonresident doe tags to 0 seems like a no brainer.

I have been three times (2020, 2021, and 2022). I have seen less deer each subsequent year.

Same years hunted for me. Same results. But I had two buddies go this year and it was better. Maybe things are on the upswing slightly.

 

[j_volt]

Same years hunted for me. Same results. But I had two buddies go this year and it was better. Maybe things are on the upswing slightly.

Conversely, I had a buddy go and it was worse.

It’s certainly all anecdotal (including my experiences), but I am certain we aren’t heading in the right direction.

 

[Deano0686]

Conversely, I had a buddy go and it was worse.

It’s certainly all anecdotal (including my experiences), but I am certain we aren’t heading in the right direction.

Yea. It’ll never be a state I go to in pursuit of a real trophy. But it’s nice to be able to hunt the rut with your buddies. But I’d be just fine if it was a tag that took 3 or 4 years to draw due to lower tag allocations. But Montana will never do that they want the money they don’t care about the resource

 

[j_volt]

Yea. It’ll never be a state I go to in pursuit of a real trophy. But it’s nice to be able to hunt the rut with your buddies. But I’d be just fine if it was a tag that took 3 or 4 years to draw due to lower tag allocations. But Montana will never do that they want the money they don’t care about the resource

Couldn’t agree more. It’s a trip when it’s a bad time to be a Busch light.

 

[OpenCountry]

Are there any anticipated changes for 2024 or is it already too late in the cycle?

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/commission/2023/dec/deer-and-elk/region-6-deer-elk-season-setting-justifications.pdf

Region 6 - Only proposed change is letting a hunter shoot 3 whitetail does instead of 4. Let the mule deer pounding continue.

Edit : Originally missed the mule deer quota proposal to INCREASE the quota high side.

 

[OpenCountry]

Fish And Wildlife Commission Meeting: December 14, 2023 | Montana FWP

Fish and Wildlife Commission Meeting: December 14, 2023

fwp.mt.gov

Other proposals for each region can be found here under the deer and elk seasons and regulations drop down. Region 4 is about the only one that shows the proposed changes discussed in this thread.