Down vs synthetic pants

[WeiserBucks]

Here's a copy/paste of a spreadsheet I've been making as I'm evaluating my next pair of puffy pants. I currently own the ultra's and have shredded them and found myself shivering. Doesn't help your synthetic vs. down debate, but might help if you decide to go down.

Company	Fill Power	Fill Weight (oz)	Total Weight (oz)	Coating	Price	Warmth Scale	$/Oz
Stone Glacier	850	4.2	16	15 Denier Pertex Quantum Shell	$ 183.20	3570​	$ 43.62
Goosefeet Gear	850	5.5	Unknown	20D interior/exterior	$ 270.00	4675​	$ 49.09
Feathered Friends Helios	900	4.4	14	Pertex Endurance LT	$ 249.00	3960​	$ 56.59
Rab Argon Pant	800	5.6	13.2	20 Denier Pertex Quantum Shell	$ 200.00	4480​	$ 35.71
Montbell Tec Down Pants	800​	2.3	14.1		$ 239.00	1840​	$ 103.91
Kuiu Superdown Pro	850	3.2	16	70d seat/knees	$ 246.75	2720​	$ 77.11

Where are you getting these prices? The manufacturers sites show much higher prices.

 

[Ross]

As noted the super down pro are very durable for a down product and pretty water resistant, I rolled around like the kid from Christmas story in mine the black ovis set is another option at a more economical price….for the $$ they are another option for something you may only use a handful of days each year. Either way if your on late season cold hunts they are $$ well spent……my buddy was shivering and I’m like brah where are your down pants silly boy

 

[carsonkeys]

The Rab Pants seem very compelling any idea how good their coating is and how durable they are?

Unsure, but unless I find another unicorn I'll be able to tell you by the end of this fall.

 

[leoneli]

Unsure, but unless I find another unicorn I'll be able to tell you by the end of this fall.

Thankyou

 

[carsonkeys]

As noted the super down pro are very durable for a down product and pretty water resistant, I rolled around like the kid from Christmas story in mine the black ovis set is another option at a more economical price….for the $$ they are another option for something you may only use a handful of days each year. Either way if your on late season cold hunts they are $$ well spent……my buddy was shivering and I’m like brah where are your down pants silly boy

Updated the spreadsheet to include the blackovis pant.

Company	Fill Power	Fill Weight (oz)	Total Weight (oz)	Coating	Price	Warmth Scale	$/Oz
Stone Glacier	850	4.2	16	15 Denier Pertex Quantum Shell	$ ____	3570​	$ ____
Goosefeet Gear	850	5.5	Unknown	20D interior/exterior	$ 270.00	4675​	$ 49.09
Feathered Friends Helios	900	4.4	14	Pertex Endurance LT	$ 249.00	3960​	$ 56.59
Rab Argon Pant	800	5.6	13.2	20 Denier Pertex Quantum Shell	$ 200.00	4480​	$ 35.71
Montbell Tec Down Pants	800​	2.3	14.1		$ 239.00	1840​	$ 103.91
Kuiu Superdown Pro	850	3.2	16	70d seat/knees	$ ____	2720​	$ ____
Black Ovis Anchor Point	800	4.23	12	20d seat/knees	$ 149.99	3384​	$ 35.46

 

[sneaky]

Kinda hard to nail Goosefeet Gear down to one price because you can choose a ton of different options which will change your final price. Fabric, fill, etc. Kinda like how Nunatak pricing can vary tremendously based on options chosen.

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[tsbjbp]

Updated the spreadsheet to include the blackovis pant.

How are you coming up with your warmth scale? I'm stuck between the super pro, wm flight, goosefeet, nunatak, FF and skre partmigan. The partmgian seems like it have a great fill weight, but looking at pictures does seem anywhere near as full as wm/gf/nunatak/FF. I'm terrified of buying anything that is going to rip on a cardboard box, but the super pro seems to be the only one marketed as an "outerwear"

 

[Coat4gun]

Another far cheaper option is the USGI Military Field Pant Liner Cold Weather Trousers. Mine weigh 16 oz since I added suspenders. They only cost me $17 plus $5 for the 1.5" elastic for the suspenders (plus sewing time). Don't compress as well as the down but dang... way cheaper. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LGFXKF4?ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details&th=1&psc=1 Its amazing how warm they are under my OR windbreaker leggings.

 

[Coat4gun]

With that said I do have a RAB down jacket with hood. Quality stuff even though the zipper is backwards.

 

[jtivat]

Updated the spreadsheet to include the blackovis pant.

Company	Fill Power	Fill Weight (oz)	Total Weight (oz)	Coating	Price	Warmth Scale	$/Oz
Stone Glacier	850	4.2	16	15 Denier Pertex Quantum Shell	$ ____	3570​	$ ____
Goosefeet Gear	850	5.5	Unknown	20D interior/exterior	$ 270.00	4675​	$ 49.09
Feathered Friends Helios	900	4.4	14	Pertex Endurance LT	$ 249.00	3960​	$ 56.59
Rab Argon Pant	800	5.6	13.2	20 Denier Pertex Quantum Shell	$ 200.00	4480​	$ 35.71
Montbell Tec Down Pants	800​	2.3	14.1		$ 239.00	1840​	$ 103.91
Kuiu Superdown Pro	850	3.2	16	70d seat/knees	$ ____	2720​	$ ____
Black Ovis Anchor Point	800	4.23	12	20d seat/knees	$ 149.99	3384​	$ 35.46

Disregard was looking at the wrong item.

 

[Justin Crossley]

Dang! I just bought the down Sitka hoody with the gore wind stopper. lol. As dumb as it is, I’d prefer to keep the same camo pattern with the puffy set if I could. Might have to sell the puffy and go kuiu for puffy pants and jacket. Sucks they don’t have womens sizes. My wife needs a set too


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Simple fix. Order all your pants in solids and all your tops/jackets in camo. Then you can mix and match them without mixing camo if you want.

I personally don't care in the slightest whether or not they match. In this photo from my last hunt I was wearing, Firstlite, Sitka, KUIU, and Kryptek. The coyotes I was hunting didn't care at all.



Bucks don't care either.

 

[DapperDan]

Yeah, I know the animals don’t care. I’m usually running around in open country Sitka accent pants and firstlite wool tops during archery in September. I may just grab solid pants. Am curious how the Sitka kelvin down WS compares to the kuiu super down pro though. I know Sitka stuff is usually legit on being wind proof and warm from my other gear that I have.


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[crich]

The Grumman and Ultra are very similar. The KUIU Pro is substantially warmer and more durable. I tore a hole in my Grumman on the corner of the cardboard box when it 1st arrived, durability is not its strong point.

Wow that's pretty disappointing right out of the gate.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Wow that's pretty disappointing right out of the gate.

Yup. The Grumman line is designed to be ultralight and ultra packable. It achieved both of those criteria but it gives up a ton of durability to pull it off. They're not a terrible choice if you're going to baby your gear, but there's better stuff available for taking a little abuse and lasting several seasons with reasonable care.

 

[carsonkeys]

How are you coming up with your warmth scale?

I'm multiplying the fill power by the fill weight. Ex. the SG pants have a fill power of 850 and fill weight of 4.2 oz so 850x4.2=3,570.

 

[Ryan Avery]

2 questions
Would you take the Gruman over the Super down ultra
If yes is the pro pant worth the extra cost over gruman

The Gruman are warmer than the SDU. Very warm like the Kuiu Pro. Great piece of gear.

Yes, the Kuiu Pro is worth the extra money.

The Rab pants tear when you look at them or at least they did for me.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Yup. The Grumman line is designed to be ultralight and ultra packable. It achieved both of those criteria but it gives up a ton of durability to pull it off. They're not a terrible choice if you're going to baby your gear, but there's better stuff available for taking a little abuse and lasting several seasons with reasonable care.

I’ve used both and would disagree - Kuiu superdown is nice. It’s also delicate and those pieces leak down far more than the SG Grumman stuff. While the Grumman is ultralight, it’s warmer and tougher in my experience, mainly due to the face fabric used, which is extremely down resistant, and can really take some “poking” and recover well. “Gives up a ton of durability” hasn’t been my experience, actually the opposite - I think everyone’s limit of what they are and are not willing to do in down impacts that, meaning it’s a very subjective subject. I’d also say the idea that it won’t last several seasons has not been my experience. Most down pieces I’ve had have all lasted far longer than any synthetics. I sure don’t baby my stuff.

Obviously my experience with it has been more positive.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I went on my uncles cow hunt a few days ago. It was -10 the Kuiu pro pants were straight money. You have no idea how much heat you lose out your ass until you put on puffy pants.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I’ve used both and would disagree - Kuiu superdown is nice. It’s also delicate and those pieces leak down far more than the SG Grumman stuff. While the Grumman is ultralight, it’s warmer and tougher in my experience, mainly due to the face fabric used, which is extremely down resistant, and can really take some “poking” and recover well. “Gives up a ton of durability” hasn’t been my experience, actually the opposite - I think everyone’s limit of what they are and are not willing to do in down impacts that, meaning it’s a very subjective subject. I’d also say the idea that it won’t last several seasons has not been my experience. Most down pieces I’ve had have all lasted far longer than any synthetics. I sure don’t baby my stuff.

Obviously my experience with it has been more positive.

I'm glad you're having a better experience than I did. I really wanted to like the Grumman line but it didn't work for me. If the Grumman pants had a 70D butt and lower legs like the SD pro they'd be great for me. Like I said earlier, I litteraly tore a hole in the Grumman pulling them out of the box. SD pro is much more durable in my experience.

Grumman is better compared to the Ultra for durability in my experience, but the Grumman is certainly warmer than the Ultra.

 

[carsonkeys]

The Gruman are warmer than the SDU. Very warm like the Kuiu Pro. Great piece of gear.

Yes, the Kuiu Pro is worth the extra money.

The Rab pants tear when you look at them or at least they did for me.

Haven’t met anyone that has owned the rabs so thanks for the heads up on the durability. Any other feedback on them?