Down or Synth for Rain/Cold

[Dilligafbp]

Looking for recs on a 0* bag for Kodiak. My concern is the rain/dampness. Are synthetics better for these conditions? If so, any recommendations on make & models of a bag for a Kodiak mt goat hunt?

 

[flesher_2006]

From the research I was doing prior to purchasing my last bag, the consensus was that synthetics were indeed better if the possibility of getting wet was there. I much prefer down but I think once it gets wet, your screwed until it dries out. Big Agnes makes some pretty good bags which is what mine is (Windlip or something like that) although I think it’s a 20 degree bag. It’s pretty easy to get a discount on Big Agnes through either Expertvoice or Guidefitter, good luck on your hunt!

 

[AK Troutbum]

For years I had the mindset that Kodiak and down were not a good match, so I used a 32° Mountain Hardwear Ultralamina bag (synthetic). Then about 8 years ago I took a chance and brought a 10° down Enlightened Equipment quilt, and I’ve been using a quilt on the island ever since. I wasn’t so concerned about it getting wet while I was hiking around, because I’ve always been good about keeping that kind of stuff in dry bags, and absolutely not allowing any water/moisture to get to my sleep system. My biggest concern with using down was the fact that I often times get into my sleep system with my wet clothes on, and use the heat from my body to dry them out throughout the night, and I wasn’t so sure that would work very well with down. Anyway, it turns out that all my concerns were for not, as it has been a non-issue.
I always bring extra stuff down there that I leave at a base camp, so if something were to go wrong on the mountain, regarding equipment failure, I can usually be back to base camp within a day two access other supplies. One of the things that I typically keep at base camp is a 0° quilt, and although I always have it, I’ve never found the need to use it. Unless you’re planning on going really late in the season/middle of the winter, or you’re a very cold sleeper, I think a 0° bag would be overkill. Nowadays, most of my goat hunting on Kodiak is done in early October, and my most commonly used quilt quilt is a 35° EE, although last year I went in early November and used a 20° El Coyote, which I think is going to be my go to quilt moving forward.
Anyway, just some of my thoughts. Everyone’s comfort level is different so take what I say with a grain of salt. You need to go with what you feel will be the most comfortable for you, as that is what’s most important .


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[turley]

^^^^
I lived in the PNW for about a decade and most of my trips were in the wet and damp Olympic National Forests and Parks. During that time I used a MH Phantom 32F 800 FP or WM Ultralite 20F 850 FP down bag carried in a dry bag and never did I experience loss of loft or warmth as a result of moisture.
For what it’s worth....Feathered Friends, one of the premier down garment manufacturers is based out of Seattle....and they don’t even use treated down.
I currently prefer down quilts with El Coyote my current favorite.

 

[FishfinderAK]

^^^
Agree.
I just keep the sleeping bag in a lightweight dry sack while in your pack.
If your sleeping bag gets too wet in your tent, you have bigger issues.

 

[Selous]

Heading to Alaska for spring bear and just ordered a new WM down bag. My resident Alaskan guide told me it didn’t matter whether I brought a synthetic or down bag - just keep it in a lightweight dry sack in the pack.

 

[Dilligafbp]

Thanks for the responses guys. Great info so far.

Forgot to mention, the hunt is first week of October.


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[Ariettabob]

For years I had the mindset that Kodiak and down were not a good match, so I used a 32° Mountain Hardwear Ultralamina bag (synthetic). Then about 8 years ago I took a chance and brought a 10° down Enlightened Equipment quilt, and I’ve been using a quilt on the island ever since. I wasn’t so concerned about it getting wet while I was hiking around, because I’ve always been good about keeping that kind of stuff in dry bags, and absolutely not allowing any water/moisture to get to my sleep system. My biggest concern with using down was the fact that I often times get into my sleep system with my wet clothes on, and use the heat from my body to dry them out throughout the night, and I wasn’t so sure that would work very well with down. Anyway, it turns out that all my concerns were for not, as it has been a non-issue.
I always bring extra stuff down there that I leave at a base camp, so if something were to go wrong on the mountain, regarding equipment failure, I can usually be back to base camp within a day two access other supplies. One of the things that I typically keep at base camp is a 0° quilt, and although I always have it, I’ve never found the need to use it. Unless you’re planning on going really late in the season/middle of the winter, or you’re a very cold sleeper, I think a 0° bag would be overkill. Nowadays, most of my goat hunting on Kodiak is done in early October, and my most commonly used quilt quilt is a 35° EE, although last year I went in early November and used a 20° El Coyote, which I think is going to be my go to quilt moving forward.
Anyway, just some of my thoughts. Everyone’s comfort level is different so take what I say with a grain of salt. You need to go with what you feel will be the most comfortable for you, as that is what’s most important .


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Have you experienced any significant difference, especially over the entire course of the hunt, going from the treated down of EE to the untreated El Coyote? That small level of protection is the only thing keeping me from trying the El Coyote. I can picture the insulation level slowly degrading over 10 days of exposure to wetish clothes and body sweat.

 

[gfreidy]

Good question, but for what it is worth EE no longer uses treated down in their new quilts.

 

[Ariettabob]

Good question, but for what it is worth EE no longer uses treated down in their new quilts.

I’m surprised. Mine’s only 2 years old and is treated..at least that’s what it says.

 

[turley]

This is an email response from EE:

“In our effort to create the highest quality quilts, we are in a continuous state of improving, testing, and listening to our customers. Most recently, this effort has led us to switch from using treated down to using untreated down. While both down types have their pros and cons, ultimately the situations where treated down excels are infrequent. Treated down does perform well when submerged or exposed to extreme wetness, but in the most common encounters with wetness (condensation, damp footbox, wet spots, etc...), we've found that treated and untreated down quilts perform similarly. After lots of testing and experimentation, we've also noted increased loft, durability and comfort from our new untreated down quilts, and feel untreated down provides a more premium product for our customers. While treated down is quality down, we feel its' beneficial elements are infrequently encountered, potentially overstated, and overshadowed by some of the aforementioned benefits provided by untreated down.”

This coincides/is similar to responses from FF, WM, and El Coyote regarding the treated down vs untreated down debate.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Have you experienced any significant difference, especially over the entire course of the hunt, going from the treated down of EE to the untreated El Coyote? That small level of protection is the only thing keeping me from trying the El Coyote. I can picture the insulation level slowly degrading over 10 days of exposure to wetish clothes and body sweat.

I’ve only used the EC quilt on one 10 day Kodiak hunt, last Oct. 30-Nov. 8, and for most of that hunt we had a high pressure system, so clear and cold. We did get a few inches of snow one night and had another two day period of rain, but nothing that really tested it to see how it would hold up in longer periods of wet weather, and I never really had the opportunity to try and dry my clothes out inside of it while sleeping.


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[Ariettabob]

Thanks guys. I’ve definitely got a clearer picture now. EE was really forthcoming in their response.

 

[Dilligafbp]

What are your thoughts on a Zenbivy bed for this hunt? I'm looking at the 10*

 

[elijah]

Did y

For years I had the mindset that Kodiak and down were not a good match, so I used a 32° Mountain Hardwear Ultralamina bag (synthetic). Then about 8 years ago I took a chance and brought a 10° down Enlightened Equipment quilt, and I’ve been using a quilt on the island ever since. I wasn’t so concerned about it getting wet while I was hiking around, because I’ve always been good about keeping that kind of stuff in dry bags, and absolutely not allowing any water/moisture to get to my sleep system. My biggest concern with using down was the fact that I often times get into my sleep system with my wet clothes on, and use the heat from my body to dry them out throughout the night, and I wasn’t so sure that would work very well with down. Anyway, it turns out that all my concerns were for not, as it has been a non-issue.
I always bring extra stuff down there that I leave at a base camp, so if something were to go wrong on the mountain, regarding equipment failure, I can usually be back to base camp within a day two access other supplies. One of the things that I typically keep at base camp is a 0° quilt, and although I always have it, I’ve never found the need to use it. Unless you’re planning on going really late in the season/middle of the winter, or you’re a very cold sleeper, I think a 0° bag would be overkill. Nowadays, most of my goat hunting on Kodiak is done in early October, and my most commonly used quilt quilt is a 35° EE, although last year I went in early November and used a 20° El Coyote, which I think is going to be my go to quilt moving forward.
Anyway, just some of my thoughts. Everyone’s comfort level is different so take what I say with a grain of salt. You need to go with what you feel will be the most comfortable for you, as that is what’s most important .


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What are some of the main reasons you’re moving away from the EE?

 

[AK Troutbum]

Did y

What are some of the main reasons you’re moving away from the EE?

I probably could have worded that a little better. I didn't mean to imply that I was moving away from the EE quilts, I just meant that the 20* El Coyote would probably be my most used quilt going forward, given most of the conditions that I find myself in while hunting. I definitely like the EC quilt a little better, I like the interior fabric better, and I like the size of the footbox better. I'll still have the occasional need for some of the other quilts, but I'll probably be getting rid of one or two as well.