Donna Boddington's Unlimited Ram

[Legend]

Antler? The horn base typically extends down below the hairline which is what he is measuring from in the photo.

FWIW the determination has to be done on the hoof. So it can't be under the hair somewhere.

 

[WCB]

She was not.

Unfortunately the Wardens didn't exactly determine it, either. View attachment 720007

Looks can be deceiving. As some Hunttalkers put it, the Warden was probably more concerned with his job and how big of a mess it would be to take a ram from these hunters. ALSO I have heard that FWP has let people keep UL rams that were killed just barely after season closure, but that's just hear-say and I don't know for certain. But it establishes a precident of a slap on the wrist instead of actually enforcing laws.

Craig Boddington

Wow! Donna took a ram today from one of Montana’s “unlimited permit” zones. This is really beating the odds…and gonna be tasty! Ryan Count and son Clay really know the area and we’ve seen a lot of...

www.facebook.com

This is the link to the facebook post where the comments are limited.

Boddington posted this picture (but then deleted iirc) in response to claims the ram wasn't legal:
View attachment 720012

This is great and all but the legality needs to be determined from a broadside view. This random angle is obviously manipulating the horns to make it pass the test set by FWP. Boddington knows this, and innocent people don't hide the truth if it is on their side.

View attachment 720014

Such a high profile hunter, going GUIDED no less, shouldn't be shooting rams like that. Because at the very least, throw it all out and say Craig is just dumb and didn't present the evidence well and the ram is barely, technically, legal, (but he's not an idiot and the ram is not legal), it would be by such a close margin that pulling the trigger is insane because you just can't tell.

Turn that head broadside and not at a high and slight angle behind and that ram is short by A LOT compared to how barely legal the made it look by taking a skewed angle. The very left edge of the twine would be the legal mark not the twine itself.

For all the guys saying the horn extends under the hair...it sure does but not much on a ram with dried milk on his lips.

 

[Hackleback]

One could always submit a FOIA request to MT FWP for the documentation and photos (if any) used at the check in/plugging. I would expect this to be public record.

 

[TVW]

I never woulda guessed that MT FWP would do something shady to please an "influencer"....

Even more shocking that WSF would ball gargle a hunting big wig any chance they get....

 

[bradmacmt]

I never woulda guessed that MT FWP would do something shady to please an "influencer"....

There's no way they would...

The Governor, the Wolf and the Warden: A Fresh Look at a Gianforte Hunt

Law enforcement officers say they were pressured to lie when Gov. Greg Gianforte of Montana killed a black wolf in 2021. He says the story is an election-year smear.

www.nytimes.com

 

[wind gypsy]

And she was not cited? Again, looking for facts, not supposition. The internet does not ultimately determine what is legal, the state game agencies do.

MT FWP:

 

[tuffcity]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here... and for the record I don't have any affiliation with these people and only have a faint idea who they are.

But... The key piece of horn is under the finger that is holding the twine. There "could" be a bald spot there that is exposed horn, in which case it would meet the (barely) requirement of the regulation- as described in the guide. i have a stone that shows horn in the exact same spot as where the finger is, with hair extending higher as in that pic of the sheep.

digging under the hair line because there is horn would not, IMO, meet the definition.

You can't get much more of a squeaker than that!

Missed @cuerro viejo pic the first time through but his is an example of what I mean. ​

 

[mt100gr.]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here... and for the record I don't have any affiliation with these people and only have a faint idea who they are.

But... The key piece of horn is under the finger that is holding the twine. There "could" be a bald spot there that is exposed horn, in which case it would meet the (barely) requirement of the regulation- as described in the guide. i have a stone that shows horn in the exact same spot as where the finger is, with hair extending higher as in that pic of the sheep.

digging under the hair line because there is horn would not, IMO, meet the definition.

You can't get much more of a squeaker than that!

Missed @cuerro viejo pic the first time through but his is an example of what I mean. ​

Except that picture is taken at an angle...

 

[mt terry d]

I have no doubt the proud hunter and her trophy will be displayed at all the big
hunting organization events and shows so everyone can see for themselves
and personally render the proper praise an accomplishment like that deserves
and put an end to the controversy.

 

[Boomer51]

FWIW the determination has to be done on the hoof. So it can't be under the hair somewhere.

Hold that string where the hairline meets the horn and it would miss the back of the eye by a significant distance, even, given the generous camera angle. No way it's legal according to the Montana definition. Maybe just use a thicker string....

I do understand the warden's dilemma, given what's gone on and going on at FWP. Still sucks.

 

[[insertspecies]Slayer]

One could always submit a FOIA request to MT FWP for the documentation and photos (if any) used at the check in/plugging. I would expect this to be public record.

FWP doesn't take any official photos as part of their documentation process. They do post the measurements though:

Age by growth rings	Right horn length	R. Base Circumference	L. length	L. base circumference
4.5	24.375	14	23.5	13.75

 

[[insertspecies]Slayer]

Unfortunately this happened way back in 2021 and is all old news. Not much use in crying over spilt milk. The AI song goes hard though

 

[cuerro viejo]

FWIW the determination has to be done on the hoof. So it can't be under the hair somewhere.

I think your Definition of hairline is off.

I’d like to see how Montana defines hairline. I bet it’s where the follicles start, and isn’t based on hair length. follicle would not be a changing line, where hair length will always be changing, and easily manipulated.

The ram I posted you can see hair that’s coming out. reason I don’t think is hair length line is because you can trim the hair in two seconds, and no one would be the wiser, You can not remove the follicle line with with out evidence of shaving.

 

[Legend]

I think your Definition of hairline is off.

I’d like to see how Montana defines hairline. I bet it’s where the follicles start, and isn’t based on hair length. follicle would not be a changing line, where hair length will always be changing, and easily manipulated.

The ram I posted you can see hair that’s coming out. reason I don’t think is hair length line is because you can trim the hair in two seconds, and no one would be the wiser, You can not remove the follicle line with with out evidence of shaving.

I have no definition.

I bet MTFWP doesn't either. What is a fact is that it must be accomplished on the hoof from a distance. So....

 

[cuerro viejo]

I have no definition.

I bet MTFWP doesn't either. What is a fact is that it must be accomplished on the hoof from a distance. So....

They aged it at 4.5 per state in an unlimited unit so I’d say the premise behind the curl ruling was essentially met, but barely

I would image that area has high death loss @ 7 with not many making 8+, also let’s not forget the reason why it’s an unlimited unit.

 

[ozyclint]

If it was shot with a .270win and above 12000'....good to go.

 

[mtwarden]

Sorry, not buying it. Every game warden on earth loves to do the opposite -- take down big names, not let them slide.

 

[mt terry d]

Sorry, not buying it. Every game warden on earth loves to do the opposite -- take down big names, not let them slide.

So much for “Equal protection under the law. Justice is blind” and all that jazz.

 

[TaperPin]

I’ve met a lot of average people that have shot 3/4 curl rams and they are just as proud of it as an average 4x4 mulie, 14” antelope, or 5x5 bull elk - the mount is a reminder of a nice hunt. I can appreciate that.

 

[TheTone]

I’ve met a lot of average people that have shot 3/4 curl rams and they are just as proud of it as an average 4x4 mulie, 14” antelope, or 5x5 bull elk - the mount is a reminder of a nice hunt. I can appreciate that.

Except that ram ain’t 3/4 curl and from the amount of money the boddingtons spend on hunts they aren’t average people