Donna Boddington's Unlimited Ram

[[insertspecies]Slayer]

And she was not cited?

She was not.

The internet does not ultimately determine what is legal, the state game agencies do.

Unfortunately the Wardens didn't exactly determine it, either.

Looks can be deceiving. As some Hunttalkers put it, the Warden was probably more concerned with his job and how big of a mess it would be to take a ram from these hunters. ALSO I have heard that FWP has let people keep UL rams that were killed just barely after season closure, but that's just hear-say and I don't know for certain. But it establishes a precident of a slap on the wrist instead of actually enforcing laws.

Craig Boddington

Wow! Donna took a ram today from one of Montana’s “unlimited permit” zones. This is really beating the odds…and gonna be tasty! Ryan Count and son Clay really know the area and we’ve seen a lot of...

www.facebook.com

This is the link to the facebook post where the comments are limited.

Boddington posted this picture (but then deleted iirc) in response to claims the ram wasn't legal:


This is great and all but the legality needs to be determined from a broadside view. This random angle is obviously manipulating the horns to make it pass the test set by FWP. Boddington knows this, and innocent people don't hide the truth if it is on their side.



Such a high profile hunter, going GUIDED no less, shouldn't be shooting rams like that. Because at the very least, throw it all out and say Craig is just dumb and didn't present the evidence well and the ram is barely, technically, legal, (but he's not an idiot and the ram is not legal), it would be by such a close margin that pulling the trigger is insane because you just can't tell.

 

[SDHNTR]

So the game warden deemed it legal, plugged it and the hunter was not cited?

Why are we still talking about this? Congrats to the hunter.

 

[ljalberta]

So the game warden deemed it legal, plugged it and the hunter was not cited?

Why are we still talking about this? Congrats to the hunter.

Some see issues with selective enforcement of wildlife laws.

 

[william schmaltz]

And she was not cited? Again, looking for facts, not supposition. The internet does not ultimately determine what is legal, the state game agencies do.

I’m no lawyer, so lawyers please correct me if needed, but I’ve been in a mind numbing number of meetings on the line between regulation and statute. Regulations have the force of law, but are not passed at the legislative level and therefore enforcement is subject to administrative discretion. I’ve heard the threat numerous times of people “taking it to the commissioner level”. Most of the times it is people who have money or large businesses in the community who use their hookups to skirt regulations the rest of us must follow. I’m by no means saying that happened here as I’ve never heard of these people until now, don’t care to know who they are, and don’t know the MT legal ram definition; but let’s not pretend that it’s unfortunately not uncommon to find a way to skirt regulation when you lean into social status.

 

[SDHNTR]

Sorry, not buying it. Every game warden on earth loves to do the opposite -- take down big names, not let them slide.

 

[ljalberta]

Sorry, not buying it. Every game warden on earth loves to do the opposite -- take down big names, not let them slide.

Have you hunted and spent time examining and judging lots of rams, both alive and dead?

 

[william schmaltz]

Sorry, not buying it. Every game warden on earth loves to do the opposite -- take down big names, not let them slide.

You’re 100% correct.

Administrative level is not warden level; it’s chief, director, or commissioner level. Again, I’m not saying that happened here. I’d love to hear wardens chime in on how many cases they’ve had thrown out from a level above them. Does MT really let wardens do their sheep plugging in the field?

 

[SDHNTR]

Have you hunted and spent time examining and judging lots of rams, both alive and dead?

Enough to have a 169" desert ram on my wall, yet I'm not sure how that's germane to this conversation.

 

[SDHNTR]

OK, so it was ultimately deemed legal by Montana FWP, yet a bunch of random people who weren't there, have never seen the ram first hand and are only relying on pictures on the internet are claiming it sub legal? Ok, got it. I know who's side I'm on.

 

[cbeard64]

I don’t know what you’re not buying. Obviously the ram was checked in and plugged as legal.

Now, whether it was in fact legal and/or factors involved can certainly be a matter of discussion and debate. But I doubt it will change anything. It clearly looks sub-legal to me and I’m sure almost everyone else looking at the photos.

I am surprised he OKed for his wife to shoot that ram. At the very least there was a huge risk of it being held sub-legal and, thus, a huge risk to his career. Not to mention his wife’s reputation. Just seems like a dumb thing to have done. I am borderline shocked he chose to submit the article in “Wild Sheep” on the hunt which even further stoked the flames of controversy. I’m also surprised WSF printed it.

The whole thing seems crazy to me….

 

[william schmaltz]

I just remembered hearing a politician say on main stream media a few days ago that “no one is above the law.” I retract all my previous comments. There’s no way either would lie to me.

 

[ljalberta]

Enough to have a 169" desert ram on my wall, yet I'm not sure how that's germane to this conversation.

Just seems fairly apparent that the curl did not meet the designated requirements.

 

[cbeard64]

I would have thought any moderately experienced sheep hunter would have not felt comfortable shooting that ram. Heck, even the photo with the string shows that (if even legal) it is the squeakiest of squeakers. Certainly there was no way to be 100% certain of legality on the hoof.

So it seems incredible to me that both a guide and the Boddingtons were willing to take such a huge risk. (They seem like nice enough and intelligent people. I like his writing and have many of his books.)

No guide, buddy, or anyone else could talk me into letting my wife pull the trigger on that ram.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Doesn’t that photo show legal but barely? Says any portion of the eye.

Thought the whole point of the unlimited was to be a buffer area to keep sheep in core areas safe. I thought you are suppose to kill sheep here.

Not a ram I’d pull trigger on but not my tag or hunt either

 

[cmahoney]

Doesn’t that photo show legal but barely? Says any portion of the eye.

Thought the whole point of the unlimited was to be a buffer area to keep sheep in core areas safe. I thought you are suppose to kill sheep here.

Not a ram I’d pull trigger on but not my tag or hunt either

Looks like he has the string below the base of the horn in that photo.


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[MattB]

Looks like he has the string below the base of the antler in that photo.


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Antler? The horn base typically extends down below the hairline which is what he is measuring from in the photo.

 

[mt100gr.]

Doesn’t that photo show legal but barely? Says any portion of the eye.

Thought the whole point of the unlimited was to be a buffer area to keep sheep in core areas safe. I thought you are suppose to kill sheep here.

Not a ram I’d pull trigger on but not my tag or hunt either

That photo doesn't meet the broadside profile requirement to use the line method. It's at an angle and IMO, using the horn flare to make it appear legal. My eye tells me that if set up correctly, that line would miss the horn tip and be just outside his fingers if held the exact same way.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Looks like he has the string below the base of the antler in that photo.


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No, it’s not where the hair covers but where it essentially starts. Front of the horn is actually pretty low compared to side .

On this ram from last year the dark hair is hiding the actual base but you can see on this ram how the horn is a lot lower in the front then sides

 

[SDHNTR]

No, it’s not where the hair covers but where it essentially starts. Front of the horn is actually pretty low compared to side .

On this ram from last year the dark hair is hiding the actual base but you can see on this ram how the horn is a lot lower in the front then sides


View attachment 720191

Correct. The horn goes way below the hair line.

 

[cmahoney]

Antler? The horn base typically extends down below the hairline which is what he is measuring from in the photo.

My bad, not used to saying horn. I’ve never looked at a ram that close so I wasn’t sure.


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