Does the 6.5 PRC have enough ass?

[Laramie]

Hand loaded 143 eldx

I have been going back and forth between that and the 147 for my sons new prc.

 

[208Logan]

I have been going back and forth between that and the 147 for my sons new prc.

I tested the 143, 147, and berger 156 but my proof barrel seemed to like the 143 the best

 

[Dennis]

New hunters,

A lot of great information on here expressed by some very knowledgeable elk hunters. Let me recap what most of us are saying to all new elk hunters with 3 elk hunting examples of public land elk hunting here in Colorado.

I'll use my 8" plate as a good shot goal and we only takes ethical shots... Seems reasonable!

1) Your elk hunt might be in heavy timber with shots in the 15 - 100 yard range
You have been hunting and on day 4 and there is a legal bull standing at 78 yards through the timber
No time for a fancy rest, shot might be off hand, or maybe off a tree or log
Maybe the shot angle isn't great and he is about to drop out of sight, so use enough gun or pass the shot

2) Two days later you're hiking downhill when bull steps out across the draw well above you, you're facing downhill and he's 256 yards away at 32 degree uphill. He sees you, what type of rest will you use and how long will he stand there?

3) On your last day you are watching a large open hill side sitting in the sage brush and a group of hunters below you shoot then push elk out of the timber and they are moving across the hill side towards more timber. When they come out they are 425 yards away but quickly get to 550 yards before slowing down to a walk. They have another 200 yards before the reach the timber and it is starting to snow. You have your rifle sitting next to you while you were glassing. Can you make that shot?

To the new and young elk hunters out there, hopefully my examples will give something to think about on public land elk and deer hunts. I know what I would do or have done, but it is more about you thinking about what would you do? Can you make those shots? Are you using enough gun and bullet in the timber to take the angled shot? Do you really want to carry a heavy rifle and scope everyday? Can you build a rest to shoot up hill while facing downhill, or realize sitting in sage brush means you can't shoot prone? Then what about this hunters below you, what do you think they will think about you shooting over their heads and maybe at their wounded elk?

I realize that on YouTube or elk hunting TV it all looks like elk just stand there while the camera gets setup, and the crew discusses the wind before the selected shooter takes the shot. FYI, I know the guy that has used his 30-30 to finish off the great on scene shot by the personality. I also know you can take long shots and make a perfect hit, but sometimes in open country at longer distances they are just wounded to death.

I have deer and elk around home and they deserve our respect! Enjoy the hunt and the adventure, but I hope all the young hunters take the time to learn to appreciate every moment, every hill climbed and the work it takes when they are successful.

It's about the memories and the friends you meet along the way.

 

[Jjustus16]

New hunters,

A lot of great information on here expressed by some very knowledgeable elk hunters. Let me recap what most of us are saying to all new elk hunters with 3 elk hunting examples of public land elk hunting here in Colorado.

I'll use my 8" plate as a good shot goal and we only takes ethical shots... Seems reasonable!

1) Your elk hunt might be in heavy timber with shots in the 15 - 100 yard range
You have been hunting and on day 4 and there is a legal bull standing at 78 yards through the timber
No time for a fancy rest, shot might be off hand, or maybe off a tree or log
Maybe the shot angle isn't great and he is about to drop out of sight, so use enough gun or pass the shot

2) Two days later you're hiking downhill when bull steps out across the draw well above you, you're facing downhill and he's 256 yards away at 32 degree uphill. He sees you, what type of rest will you use and how long will he stand there?

3) On your last day you are watching a large open hill side sitting in the sage brush and a group of hunters below you shoot then push elk out of the timber and they are moving across the hill side towards more timber. When they come out they are 425 yards away but quickly get to 550 yards before slowing down to a walk. They have another 200 yards before the reach the timber and it is starting to snow. You have your rifle sitting next to you while you were glassing. Can you make that shot?

To the new and young elk hunters out there, hopefully my examples will give something to think about on public land elk and deer hunts. I know what I would do or have done, but it is more about you thinking about what would you do? Can you make those shots? Are you using enough gun and bullet in the timber to take the angled shot? Do you really want to carry a heavy rifle and scope everyday? Can you build a rest to shoot up hill while facing downhill, or realize sitting in sage brush means you can't shoot prone? Then what about this hunters below you, what do you think they will think about you shooting over their heads and maybe at their wounded elk?

I realize that on YouTube or elk hunting TV it all looks like elk just stand there while the camera gets setup, and the crew discusses the wind before the selected shooter takes the shot. FYI, I know the guy that has used his 30-30 to finish off the great on scene shot by the personality. I also know you can take long shots and make a perfect hit, but sometimes in open country at longer distances they are just wounded to death.

I have deer and elk around home and they deserve our respect! Enjoy the hunt and the adventure, but I hope all the young hunters take the time to learn to appreciate every moment, every hill climbed and the work it takes when they are successful.

It's about the memories and the friends you meet along the way.

Well said. Also, I know I have passed on shots on guided upland hunts just because I’m not comfortable shooting over someone’s head (even though the guide said shoot over my head, just don’t kill me.) I’d love to take an animal but the safety of my fellow hunters and guides comes before that.

 

[Westy35]

In real life hunting situations, there are a TON of variables, and they can combine very quickly. Wind swirls or changes direction, an animal takes a step while grazing, an animal turns it’s head to look at another animal in the herd, breeze kicks up, breeze dies down, your heart is beating at 170bpm, the trigger/release might not (likely won’t) break 100% clean, you might pull your head to see the result, is the animal slight quartering to or broadside, is the animal above or below you (and how should your point of aim change to account for that), are there up drafts from thermals, are there down drafts from thermals, if shooting from a steep slope is the weapon canted, is your foundation less steady since you’re shooting from a slope, etc., etc. Point is, shooting at a big game animal in the mountains is very different than shooting on a flat range. A LOT can and does happen in the span of fractions of a second while shooting at critters.

Here’s my PERSONAL general rule of thumb. Whatever the distance is which I can consistently put a projectile inside an 8” circle in real life practice (read: actual field shooting positions - prone off a pack or bipod, kneeling, etc), cut that distance in half, and that’s how far I’m comfortable taking a first shot at an animal. Follow-up shots are different since if I hit a critter, I keep shooting until they are down or out of sight - that’s where being able to shoot a long ways comes into more play for me, and I can make that 500 yard follow-up shot if necessary and available).

For archery, I can keep arrows inside 8” at 80 yards pretty consistently during practice, but I generally limit my first shots on animals to 40 yards or less. 30 is much better than 40. I’ve made mistakes and had bad stuff happen at 30. Most of my bowhunting kills have been under 30 yards, including a 19 yard shot on a mountain goat, 17 yard shot on an elk, (both spot and stalk), etc.

I shoot rifles less, but I am pretty confident out to 500 yards in practice. I limit my first shots on game to under 300. If conditions are bad, then less. Personally, I always want to be closer.

Don’t misunderstand, I don’t judge guys that take longer shots if they have the skills and experience to take them. Despite 20 years of hunting in the mountains, I know I still don’t have those skills, so I adjust accordingly.

There is A LOT of good advice in this thread, and I’d also encourage you to not be offended by it. Rather, learn from it and take the more aggressive comments as cautionary. In my opinion, if you’ve never hunted elk or hunted/shot in the mountains before, you shouldn’t be taking a 700 yard poke at one. I also think you’d be better served to ask some different questions. If I were you and were learning how to hunt western big game, I’d be asking this community about how to become the best hunter possible. Shooting is a fun and necessary part of being a successful hunter, but it’s a small part. My weapon rides on my pack 99% of the time when I hunt. But what I do during that 99% is what determines whether I kill an animal or not. Still have to make the shot of course, but have to great the good shot opportunity first. How do you find critters consistently? How can you close the gap between an animal you see at 900 yards to get inside 100 for a shot? Inside 50. For elk, getting close is all about scent and motion. Always know what the wind is doing, and never let the animal get downwind of you. Don’t move if they are looking at you. I’ve had elk look right past me while I was dead still at 5 yards and had them pick me up while moving at well over 700. Are there times when a longer shot is necessary or you will lose the opportunity? Of course. But that doesn’t mean you have to take that shot. Again, personally, I pass on any shot I’m not 90% or more confident I’m going to make. I’ve lost enough critters with marginal shots at far shorter ranges than you’re talking about to know it doesn’t feel very good when you wound one AND THEN see it walk over the ridgeline.

 

[Jjustus16]

In real life hunting situations, there are a TON of variables, and they can combine very quickly. Wind swirls or changes direction, an animal takes a step while grazing, an animal turns it’s head to look at another animal in the herd, breeze kicks up, breeze dies down, your heart is beating at 170bpm, the trigger/release might not (likely won’t) break 100% clean, you might pull your head to see the result, is the animal slight quartering to or broadside, is the animal above or below you (and how should your point of aim change to account for that), are there up drafts from thermals, are there down drafts from thermals, if shooting from a steep slope is the weapon canted, is your foundation less steady since you’re shooting from a slope, etc., etc. Point is, shooting at a big game animal in the mountains is very different than shooting on a flat range. A LOT can and does happen in the span of fractions of a second while shooting at critters.

Here’s my PERSONAL general rule of thumb. Whatever the distance is which I can consistently put a projectile inside an 8” circle in real life practice (read: actual field shooting positions - prone off a pack or bipod, kneeling, etc), cut that distance in half, and that’s how far I’m comfortable taking a first shot at an animal. Follow-up shots are different since if I hit a critter, I keep shooting until they are down or out of sight - that’s where being able to shoot a long ways comes into more play for me, and I can make that 500 yard follow-up shot if necessary and available).

For archery, I can keep arrows inside 8” at 80 yards pretty consistently during practice, but I generally limit my first shots on animals to 40 yards or less. 30 is much better than 40. I’ve made mistakes and had bad stuff happen at 30. Most of my bowhunting kills have been under 30 yards, including a 19 yard shot on a mountain goat, 17 yard shot on an elk, (both spot and stalk), etc.

I shoot rifles less, but I am pretty confident out to 500 yards in practice. I limit my first shots on game to under 300. If conditions are bad, then less. Personally, I always want to be closer.

Don’t misunderstand, I don’t judge guys that take longer shots if they have the skills and experience to take them. Despite 20 years of hunting in the mountains, I know I still don’t have those skills, so I adjust accordingly.

There is A LOT of good advice in this thread, and I’d also encourage you to not be offended by it. Rather, learn from it and take the more aggressive comments as cautionary. In my opinion, if you’ve never hunted elk or hunted/shot in the mountains before, you shouldn’t be taking a 700 yard poke at one. I also think you’d be better served to ask some different questions. If I were you and were learning how to hunt western big game, I’d be asking this community about how to become the best hunter possible. Shooting is a fun and necessary part of being a successful hunter, but it’s a small part. My weapon rides on my pack 99% of the time when I hunt. But what I do during that 99% is what determines whether I kill an animal or not. Still have to make the shot of course, but have to great the good shot opportunity first. How do you find critters consistently? How can you close the gap between an animal you see at 900 yards to get inside 100 for a shot? Inside 50. For elk, getting close is all about scent and motion. Always know what the wind is doing, and never let the animal get downwind of you. Don’t move if they are looking at you. I’ve had elk look right past me while I was dead still at 5 yards and had them pick me up while moving at well over 700. Are there times when a longer shot is necessary or you will lose the opportunity? Of course. But that doesn’t mean you have to take that shot. Again, personally, I pass on any shot I’m not 90% or more confident I’m going to make. I’ve lost enough critters with marginal shots at far shorter ranges than you’re talking about to know it doesn’t feel very good when you wound one AND THEN see it walk over the ridgeline.

That’s fair. I know there is much more that goes into the hunt. I was asking about shot rangers and I think I have my answer: I need to be stress shooting at 200 and work my way up from there.
At first I was a little offended, but now I’ve come around to it. I get that there are dumbasses who think they can buy their way into a hunt with no real hunting experience. I am not that guy. Have I ever hunted elk - no. Have I slayed a whole lot of upland, duck and white tail - yes. I’ll take my common sense from there and run with everyone’s advice.

If anyone is still reading this massive thread, I would love to know about animal habits, picking areas where elk will be (I’m assuming food, water, cover as with any animal) spot and stalk, calling, etc. BUT, I feel guilty for asking that question. Truthfully, I have done little research on that, and I hate to start asking for handouts without doing my own diligence.

 

[JoeB]

That felt very passive aggressive lol. Im here asking for advice man. No need to be like that.

FYI: I’m ringing steel at 800 yards with a 7RM consistently.

if your proficient with the 7 mag then that's the one I would be taking along. That caliber will kill elk just as well as any other caliber. But if you're just looking for a reason to buy a new gun then by gosh get a new one, one can always make room for more in the safe lol

 

[Nickofthewoods]

If anyone is still reading this massive thread, I would love to know about animal habits, picking areas where elk will be (I’m assuming food, water, cover as with any animal) spot and stalk, calling, etc. BUT, I feel guilty for asking that question. Truthfully, I have done little research on that, and I hate to start asking for handouts without doing my own diligence.

Elk education

I'm just a regular guy from Pennsylvania who's dreamed of being able to hunt out west ever since I was a kid, I've finally reached a point in my life where it's becoming possible and am hungry to learn as much as I can before I head out to start hunting. Mostly interested in elk and mule deer...

rokslide.com

Elk calling tactics and tips: ElkNut App?

I suck at calling!!! Don't reallly understand how , when & why . I want to get better at it and be comfortable enough to be able to use them in the field. Specifically, diaphragm calls. Started practicing Jan 1, but looking for guidance. Is the ElkNut Pro App what I'm looking for...

rokslide.com

Elk newbie, which online program is best?

Bought my first PP for Wyoming elk this year and starting to learn more about elk hunting, best zones etc. is there an online elk subscription that’s best to learn the in and outs? Go hunt? Elk101? The Elk Collective?

rokslide.com

There's a TON more like this here if you search. Lots of great reading material here at The Rok.

 

[11boo]

Learn the wind and you will Knock’em down at handgun ranges.

All taken with rifle, under 80 yards.

 

[Marble]

That felt very passive aggressive lol. Im here asking for advice man. No need to be like that.

FYI: I’m ringing steel at 800 yards with a 7RM consistently.

It isn't passive aggressive at all. He's pretty clear about how he feels about the topic.

I like all the questions you have. They are good things to consider. But consider this, in 22 years and between 50 and 60 elk killed, furthest was 650. That is in really big, high altitude backcountry. Most kills are 200-400. I can't think of a time where the rifle I had made it impossible to take my shot. It's somewhat difficult to get into a good shooting position, in the woods, in a spur of the moment type of thing.

You're choosing capable cartridges. Buy a heavy for caliber bullet and spend some good money on your scope.

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[Mike D Texas]

Is the cartridge capable? Probably with a very well placed shot but your margin of error will be very small.

I’m a 6.5mm junkie and I have a 6.5 mm cartridge that will smoke a 6.5PRC…..but I wouldn’t shoot an elk at 700 yards with it.

That’s why I am building a 338 Norma. I am not spending thousands of dollars to take a marginal cartridge to shoot an elk with. I’m placing the odds as much in my favor as possible.

With a high quality effective brake, my 300 Norma has get recoil similar to a 308 Winchester.


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[Ernie]

But consider this, in 22 years and between 50 and 60 elk killed, furthest was 650. That is in really big, high altitude backcountry. Most kills are 200-400. I can't think of a time where the rifle I had made it impossible to take my shot. It's somewhat difficult to get into a good shooting position, in the woods, in a spur of the moment type of thing.

You're choosing capable cartridges. Buy a heavy for caliber bullet and spend some good money on your scope.

This is my experience as well. I have not hunted elk every year since I started, but I have been going at it for just over 30 years now.

 

[Westy35]

I would love to know about animal habits, picking areas where elk will be (I’m assuming food, water, cover as with any animal) spot and stalk, calling, etc. Truthfully, I have done little research on that, and I hate to start asking for handouts without doing my own diligence.

Now you’re talking! That’s the education you should really be focused on right now. Lots of that info is already in this forum and others, and there are a lot of other good resources also.

I haven’t used it, but I’ve heard University of Elk Hunting is a good resource too.

2022_Online Course Sales Page | Elk101.com | Eat. Sleep. HUNT ELK!

www.elk101.com

 

[Kenn]

Being old and not into the current slang, could someone define "ass" for me?

 

[TheViking]

Being old and not into the current slang, could someone define "ass" for me?

Does it have enough oomph, or power.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Being old and not into the current slang, could someone define "ass" for me?

Lol that’s far from “current slang”.


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[GotDraw?]

Lol that’s far from “current slang”.


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This is the "cool' way of asking if a cartridge has enough "power".

Call it Ft Lbs, kinectic energy, ass, whatever you wish..

JL

 

[House21]

My rule of thumb is whatever distance I practice at the range I cut that in half while hunting. Targets don’t move and if you make a bad shot on a target it’s no big deal. Having lost an elk I can tell you it’s a horrible feeling. I shoot steel out to 1200 but even to shoot 600 in the field I would want everything to be perfect and that rarely ever happens. As for 6.5 being enough for elk, of course it is. I’ve shot them with a 243 up to 338 and never felt like I was limited. Get a prc, practice, practice, practice and don’t force a shot you’re not 100% confident in. If you question it at all don’t take it no matter how big the elk is and you’ll be fine

 

[MuleyFever]

This is the "cool' way of asking if a cartridge has enough "power".

Call it Ft Lbs, kinectic energy, ass, whatever you wish..

JL

Do we need to add "ass" to the slang thread?

 

[Hoodie]

Okay, I think numbers are helpful for assessing the reality of what you're talking about.

I just plugged these in on shooterscalculator.com. Let's use Hornady's factory Precision Hunter ammo with a 143 grain ELD-X for a rough idea of what we're talking about here. Starting out at 2960fps with a 5mph wind at 45 degrees you've got a little less than 10 inches of wind drift at 700 yards. If what you call as a 5mph/45 degree wind is actually an 8mph/55 degree wind that 10 inches of wind drift turns into 18 inches of wind drift.

You are a "total newbie as far as western hunting goes." Which is fine, and I hope you have an awesome experience on your hunt.

Do you know how hard it is to consistently tell the difference between a 5mph wind at 45 degrees and an 8mph wind at 55 degrees in the mountains? Because the difference is the difference between a dead elk and a gut shot animal where you've got to cover almost half a mile just to start looking for blood.

I highly recommend playing around with small differences in wind speed/angle in a ballistic calculator for a reality check. If you don't have the opportunity to shoot in broken terrain with highly variable winds (like most elk country), it's going to be extremely difficult to develop the wind calling skills needed for 700.