Does Loctite alter torque on scope rings

[4th_point]

Cases like this, I would look at the tool used to apply the torque.

Fat Wrench may have gone belly up.

I tested several of them. There was some error with each as I recall, but one was way off. It was repeatable but the value on the scale didn't match the torque applied. Another would not always click.

The only time I have seen tubes severely crushed was from a defective tool.

 

[wapitibob]

The design of the hyperlite top ring half would easily allow them to taco and pinch a thin scope tube without a whole lot of torque on the screws.

 

[Wrench]

There is also the "feels good" and mark method that works well.

Think about what you are doing. If you have a narrow cap with 48tpi screws, you are going to need to be more careful than a wide cap with 32tpi screws.

Snug it up to contact, square it up and mark it with a sharpie or paint.....fire a dozen rounds and check for tube slide.

I have a sightron s8 in their 40mm rings which is a very heavy scope in very narrow rings and it lives on an edge that isn't exactly friendly to scopes....but it stays put and hasn't crushed.

6 screw caps are a tough one to get right at first. You'll be chasing torque for a long time as you try to equalize the screw load. Do not load one edge or you'll crush it.

 

[sndmn11]

I have had two sets of these Hyperlite rings stripped the threading already

Warne HyperLite Picatinny

Has anyone tried these rings out yet? Looking for general feedback after I was advised to steer clear of the Talley Ultralights. I'm buying a Tikka with an included Picatinny rail and these looked promising but I'm not finding any real user reviews anywhere...

rokslide.com

 

[nighthawkf-117]

Interesting issue and response from Warne

 

[SDHNTR]

OP, i’m just curious, is there any actual mechanical damage to your scope? Bound up erector? Or is that just some minor cosmetic damage to the finish, as it appears.

 

[Sundodger]

Guys, it doesn't change "the torque" the question to ask is if it changes the torque tension relationship.

Tension is what keeps hard joints together, torque is an imperfect proxy for tension.

In a previous life I was the lead engineer for bolted joints at an OEM manufacturing company, we did extensive testing with Loctite and to our surprised the compounds we tested had no statistically significant effect on the tq/tension relationship. Lock patches on the other hand, what a hot bag of steaming garbage those are...

 

[Wrench]

Jim Borden makes the short list of smartest men on earth regarding rifle actions. He's an engineer by trade and own one of the highest regarded actions made today.

Jim made some interesting comments about torque and wet threads that deserves a listen. You can skip ahead to about the 2 hour mark if you don't care to learn about borden.

 

[JohnDough]

Cases like this, I would look at the tool used to apply the torque.

Fat Wrench may have gone belly up.

I tested several of them. There was some error with each as I recall, but one was way off. It was repeatable but the value on the scale didn't match the torque applied. Another would not always click.

The only time I have seen tubes severely crushed was from a defective tool.

I have sometimes become suspicious. What I do is install the half inch and set torque and then crank on the crossbolt and get a "feel" for 15 in lb and assure myself it's clicking over, before I do tedious work with it.

 

[JohnDough]

Guys, it doesn't change "the torque" the question to ask is if it changes the torque tension relationship.

Tension is what keeps hard joints together, torque is an imperfect proxy for tension.

In a previous life I was the lead engineer for bolted joints at an OEM manufacturing company, we did extensive testing with Loctite and to our surprised the compounds we tested had no statistically significant effect on the tq/tension relationship. Lock patches on the other hand, what a hot bag of steaming garbage those are...

I've seen loctite modify tension/compression/stretch, and I've seen it not. I think substrate materials are also a factor here.

 

[4th_point]

I have sometimes become suspicious. What I do is install the half inch and set torque and then crank on the crossbolt and get a "feel" for 15 in lb and assure myself it's clicking over, before I do tedious work with it.

You can use the short end of a hex or Torx key. Most people are unlikely to over tighten a fastener with such a small portion to grab.

Once tight with the short end, simply snug it up with the long end. It helps some people develop a feel.

I have a calibrated beam type TW but I don't have any concerns using the method above.

 

[4th_point]

I've seen loctite modify tension/compression/stretch, and I've seen it not. I think substrate materials are also a factor here.

I believe you. That's why a formal study is supposed to be done, if any of the affects are critical.

Information from some adhesive manufacturers can be misleading. Loctite may still advertise that their locker doesn't affect "torque" but their technical papers stated that a study should be done with and without locker to ensure proper joint connection.

Most of this is unlikely to matter for hunters and shooters. However, as a group, I would just prefer that we don't regurgitate bad information with blanket statements.

 

[4th_point]

To stir the pot a bit, has anyone ever taken a fastener, applied thread locker without cleaning/degreasing, and had it fail to set or hold properly?

And can prove that lack of cleaning was the cause?

I never have, whether on firearms or machinery. The adhesive has always set up and held. Its a pain in the neck to remove the residue, even 242, when disassembled too!

I've been fortunate to see all sorts of assemblies made in person, in various industries, and across different regions and none of the manufacturers clean or degrease fasteners. I also get to see details on customer returns and have yet to come across issues where failure to clear or degrease is a root cause.

But there might be certain products or applications where it might matter. If so, I'd like to know.

 

[Wrench]

I posted a video by Jim Borden who I guarantee knows more about actions and screws than most of us combined. If you watch that.....it's puts so much of this banter to sleep. Spoiler alert, he didn't say fingernail polish is the magic bullet.