Does anyone use a thermal while scanning before switching to traditional optics?

[rogerthat]

I think they already are. I don't believe there is a state where its legal to hunt big game with thermal of any sort.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

This is incorrect but I’m definitely not throwing anyone an idea reading this thread.

 

[lang]

Thermal Legality by State

Disclaimer: The information provided on this blog does not, and is not intended to, constitute legal advice. Sightmark has done its due diligence and has reached out to the Fish and Wildlife representatives from all 50 states to determine the legality of thermal optics for hunting within...

sightmark.com

Looks like it's legal lots of places. Never crossed my mind before aside from coyotes.

 

[Gear-Reviewer]

Thermal Legality by State

Disclaimer: The information provided on this blog does not, and is not intended to, constitute legal advice. Sightmark has done its due diligence and has reached out to the Fish and Wildlife representatives from all 50 states to determine the legality of thermal optics for hunting within...

sightmark.com

Looks like it's legal lots of places. Never crossed my mind before aside from coyotes.

Good job giving people ideas by making it easy and posting this.

 

[Tbonespop]

Thermal Legality by State

Disclaimer: The information provided on this blog does not, and is not intended to, constitute legal advice. Sightmark has done its due diligence and has reached out to the Fish and Wildlife representatives from all 50 states to determine the legality of thermal optics for hunting within...

sightmark.com

Looks like it's legal lots of places. Never crossed my mind before aside from coyotes.

I have thought it would be helpful for tracking down deer or elk after shooting them like when archery hunting. Definitely a no-go for hunting purposes or "taking wildlife". Doubtful Fish and game would buy that it was being used for solely tracking the game after being shot versus using it for hunting unless they were watching you hunt. Best not to risk it.

 

[kcm2]

Do not seek legal advice over the internet. It's worth exactly what you paid for it.

I am an attorney. I will tell you that only written advice from CPW is a valid defense. Calling and getting advice won't help you.

 

[TripleJ]

I think they already are. I don't believe there is a state where its legal to hunt big game with thermal of any sort.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I am quoting you because I know that you and I both hunt Oregon and spend a lot of time on the westside chasing blacktails in the thick brush. I had never heard of this kind of thing until this year, at least in a hunting context. I am normally a bowhunter but still make it out with my sons during rifle season quite regularly. From what I am hearing, and from multiple people, is that the use of thermals is becoming quite rampant for westside blacktail rifle 'hunters'. And just like any other form of cheating, they work extremely well. People that used to only kill a dinker buck every few years are suddenly killing a big buck every year, as well as the rest of their family. Glassing up blacktails in the thick brushy clearcuts, especially bedded ones, is the one of the most effective techniques for westside rifle deer hunting and being able to pick up animals in the brush/through the brush takes pretty much all of the work out of it. People are pulling up to clearcuts, doing a quick scan, and if it is empty, they are moving onto the next. They repeat until they find a unit with animals in it. Once you know an animal is there, it simply becomes a waiting game. My buddy talked to an OSP game officer last month and told him what he was hearing. The officer's response was "we know it's going on, but there's not much we can do about it, it's hard to prove" This is most definitely something that needs to be addressed in our state, and there needs to be some enforcement happening, somehow and someway. God knows our blacktail herds are already in a downward trend.

 

[ninmecu]

I am looking at doing a hunt Colorado where glassing is commonly used, especially compared to my normal hunting in East Texas. When hunting whitetail in East Texas we will use thermals to scan treelines in large fields often seeing where the deer are behind treeline prior to coming into a field.

Does anyone use a thermal in western type hunts to locate prior to switching to glass in order to judge if it is something to actively hunt? I know that it can be difficult to just find an animal in wide open areas with glass, thermal would at least point you in the correct direction to look with glass.

This is completely legal to use, "during hunting hours". For those that don't know the basics of the English language "or thermal imaging devices", "as an aid in hunting or taking wildlife", "outside legal hunting hours". This has been settled by legal precedent. You can definitely use this as a legal hunting aid in the hunting hours. Whoever spoke to Fish and Wildlife clearly didn't read the regulation and is going off of whatever common knowledge is spoken around the office.

I couldn't tell you how many times i've spoken to Law Enforcement who either misquoted, didn't understand, or didn't know about the Colorado Revised Statues.

There is also a reason they specifically state the hunting hours in this section so that one can know when devices are legal to use. Otherwise they would have left it out because the hours of operation would be meaningless if there wasn't a provision in the text that allowed the use of such devices during certain hours. I can't believe some people's interpretation of this.

 

[rogerthat]

This is completely legal to use, "during hunting hours". For those that don't know the basics of the English language "or thermal imaging devices", "as an aid in hunting or taking wildlife", "outside legal hunting hours". This has been settled by legal precedent. You can definitely use this as a legal hunting aid in the hunting hours. Whoever spoke to Fish and Wildlife clearly didn't read the regulation and is going off of whatever common knowledge is spoken around the office.

I couldn't tell you how many times i've spoken to Law Enforcement who either misquoted, didn't understand, or didn't know about the Colorado Revised Statues.

There is also a reason they specifically state the hunting hours in this section so that one can know when devices are legal to use. Otherwise they would have left it out because the hours of operation would be meaningless if there wasn't a provision in the text that allowed the use of such devices during certain hours. I can't believe some people's interpretation of this.

Even if legal, can and should are two different things. I think a lot of states are behind the curve on the use of this aweful technology. Yeah, that’s right aweful. Why? Because it’s not fair chase. Additionally any tech that increases success will have to be offset by a loss in hunter opportunity. The new crop of hardos don’t seem to get this. They just care about what increases their success. You are loser with no woodmanship skills if you use these as an aid in big game hunting.

 

[ninmecu]

Even if legal, can and should are two different things. I think a lot of states are behind the curve on the use of this aweful technology. Yeah, that’s right aweful. Why? Because it’s not fair chase. Additionally any tech that increases success will have to be offset by a loss in hunter opportunity. The new crop of hardos don’t seem to get this. They just care about what increases their success. You are loser with no woodmanship skills if you use these as an aid in big game hunting.

As other people have pointed out, why would you limit yourself and hinder your own hunt if you had the opportunity to use the resources allowed by law.
Multiple people have brought the same argument; With your line of thinking, you could say the same thing about Vehicles driving to any hunting spot.
So I say this to you rogerthat-if you aren't using a wagon train and horses for your hunt, you are a loser. If you don't use black powder and muskets from the 1700's you aren't hard. If you don't craft your own bow and arrow you shouldn't use anything. See how dumb that sounds?

Are you going to use a spear for hunting and make your own clothes from the natural resources around you? Are you going to walk 150 miles from your home to the nearest hunting ground? Your logic is flawed if you've ever driven to a campsite, used a cell-phone, have modern hunting clothing...Times changed dude and you're living in the past if you think you shouldn't be allowed to use what's allowable.

As far as fair chase goes, tell that to all the hunters with Horses who can easily outpace and outperform humans to get them into deep country.

 

[rogerthat]

As other people have pointed out, why would you limit yourself and hinder your own hunt if you had the opportunity to use the resources allowed by law.
Multiple people have brought the same argument; With your line of thinking, you could say the same thing about Vehicles driving to any hunting spot.
So I say this to you rogerthat-if you aren't using a wagon train and horses for your hunt, you are a loser. If you don't use black powder and muskets from the 1700's you aren't hard. If you don't craft your own bow and arrow you shouldn't use anything. See how dumb that sounds?

Are you going to use a spear for hunting and make your own clothes from the natural resources around you? Are you going to walk 150 miles from your home to the nearest hunting ground? Your logic is flawed if you've ever driven to a campsite, used a cell-phone, have modern hunting clothing...Times changed dude and you're living in the past if you think you shouldn't be allowed to use what's allowable.

As far as fair chase goes, tell that to all the hunters with Horses who can easily outpace and outperform humans to get them into deep country.

They shouldn’t be allowable. That’s my point. Why don’t we just use black hawk helicopters for hunting? Your train of thought supports this. You could get all the trophies of your dreams! The states game and fish departments are behind on their rule packages on this aweful tech in some states. That’s my point. You obviously also glossed over my point that tech that increases success will need to be offset by limiting opportunity. Food for you to think about while your scanning up your next buck or bull

 

[swavescatter]

They shouldn’t be allowable. That’s my point. Why don’t we just use black hawk helicopters for hunting? Your train of thought supports this. You could get all the trophies of your dreams! The states game and fish departments are behind on their rule packages on this aweful tech in some states. That’s my point. You obviously also glossed over my point that tech that increases success will need to be offset by limiting opportunity. Food for you to think about while your scanning up your next buck or bull

Use of aircraft or drones is usually not legal. Yes, state laws lag technology, but choosing which tech not to use that's legal is a personal position.

You can't be completely altruistic about fair chase unless you're a cave man as pointed out. Rangefinders? Scopes? Modern rifle? Compound bow? OnX? E scouting? UTVs? Livestock? Trail cams?

There's opinions and state laws. Choose your own adventure

 

[ninmecu]

They shouldn’t be allowable. That’s my point. Why don’t we just use black hawk helicopters for hunting? Your train of thought supports this. You could get all the trophies of your dreams! The states game and fish departments are behind on their rule packages on this aweful tech in some states. That’s my point. You obviously also glossed over my point that tech that increases success will need to be offset by limiting opportunity. Food for you to think about while your scanning up your next buck or bull

We don't use blackhawk helictopers for hunting because it's illegal to use. That's why people don't do it. My line of thinking doesn't support it at all.

I stated that this tech is legal to use. USE IT. Chasing down an herd of elk and mowing them down from a helicopter isn't LEGAL. Don't do it! Pretty simple.

I think they aren't behind at all. I think they know what people have at their disposal and are limiting it to make things fair without straight banning everything.

I'm curious to know what your opinion is on Game Cams. Would you agree that this is awful tech as well? You can literally place hundreds of cams and pinpoint any herd that you'd like, in real time and set off on your Cell phone guided hunt.

 

[bigsky2]

I’m not usually one to name call but anyone that uses thermals for hunting is a loser in my book.

 

[rogerthat]

Use of aircraft or drones is usually not legal. Yes, state laws lag technology, but choosing which tech not to use that's legal is a personal position.

You can't be completely altruistic about fair chase unless you're a cave man as pointed out. Rangefinders? Scopes? Modern rifle? Compound bow? OnX? E scouting? UTVs? Livestock? Trail cams?

There's opinions and state laws. Choose your own adventure

Thermals and the tech you guys compare it to are not on the same level. Do you know anyone that can see heat? But I’m not surprised. This place is all about achieving success with all means and gear legal and necessary. I think it’s paramount for hunters to speak up when technology is a bridge too far. If not, we are going to be our own worst enemy. Technology is only going to keep improving. We, hunters, as the subject matter experts need to be thoughtful as to how this technology is going to impact us. Thermal technology has no place in fair chase in big game hunting. Your not going to change my mind

 

[rogerthat]

To answer your question, similar opinion on cell cams. Not so much on traditional cams due to the work and effort to pull cards etc.

I think state game agencies have a better understanding of what this technology is and how it’s being used. Thermals…. Not so much

 

[saskhunter]

Sure, using thermal to hunt big game might be legal in some jurisdictions, but it's still low-T energy.

 

[swavescatter]

Thermals and the tech you guys compare it to are not on the same level. Do you know anyone that can see heat? But I’m not surprised. This place is all about achieving success with all means and gear legal and necessary. I think it’s paramount for hunters to speak up when technology is a bridge too far. If not, we are going to be our own worst enemy. Technology is only going to keep improving. We, hunters, as the subject matter experts need to be thoughtful as to how this technology is going to impact us. Thermal technology has no place in fair chase in big game hunting. Your not going to change my mind

I'm not trying to argue that thermal isn't fair chase or change your mind. State game agencies need to be lobbied to change laws if technology outpaces "fair chase".

You're trying to shame people for hunting differently than you choose to. Cool. Some guys are lazy and use every advantage legal, and some guys are killers and use every advantage legal. Most guys are in between.

Look at how NM just made scoped muzzleloaders illegal - that was due to harvest rates being way too high. It lagged a few years too late, but that's how things work. Many states are now going after thermals and trail cams. Cool.

 

[LoH]

regarding thermal devices, here in Utah they recently updated the verbiage in the the regs from illegal to "use" to illegal to simply "possess" during a big game hunt. I applaud them making it unequivocal, unambiguous, and much more straightforward for conservation officers (game wardens) to enforce.

 

[rogerthat]

I'm not trying to argue that thermal isn't fair chase or change your mind. State game agencies need to be lobbied to change laws if technology outpaces "fair chase".

You're trying to shame people for hunting differently than you choose to. Cool. Some guys are lazy and use every advantage legal, and some guys are killers and use every advantage legal. Most guys are in between.

Look at how NM just made scoped muzzleloaders illegal - that was due to harvest rates being way too high. It lagged a few years too late, but that's how things work. Many states are now going after thermals and trail cams. Cool.

Hunt however you want if it’s legal. I still think you’re a loser if you use a thermal. It’s just my opinion. Good post thanks.

 

[swavescatter]

Hunt however you want if it’s legal. I still think you’re a loser if you use a thermal. It’s just my opinion. Good post thanks.

I see we have ourselves an intellectual here Touche' my man.