disappointing hunt in G

[BRTreedogs]

Let's go back to no phone, gps, forums, YouTube, all the application services.
Let's go back to carburetor trucks with bias ply tires. Denim jeans and plaid jackets.

Ohh wait then the trad bow guys would say that's not traditional enough.

Then the speer guys in loin cloths would say them fantasy traditional bows arnt traditional enough.

Long story short ya'll should have kept your big mouths shut there were bunch big bucks up there. But ya couldn't help but brag ya shot him at 300 yards with a 4x weaver.

 

[highfastflyer]

Let's go back to no phone, gps, forums, YouTube, all the application services.
Let's go back to carburetor trucks with bias ply tires. Denim jeans and plaid jackets.

Ohh wait then the trad bow guys would say that's not traditional enough.

Then the speer guys in loin cloths would say them fantasy traditional bows arnt traditional enough.

Long story short ya'll should have kept your big mouths shut there were bunch big bucks up there. But ya couldn't help but brag ya shot him at 300 yards with a 4x weaver.

Not very many bucks left let alone Big bucks out there. The Winter ranges are the most barren in 30 years, seems every year it gets worse. All the game managers do, is to continuously adjust the herd objective lower. In the 90s we had 50,000+ deer, the herd objective is now 40,000 and the aerial surveys show 29,000 deer on the Wyoming Range.

Fast forward to the year 2100. Gun ownership was outlawed 30 years ago. The deer were extinct by 2070 due to massive CWD, over hunting and human population increases with the earth’s population at 11 Billion people. The Wyoming Range is now a high plains desert with massive cheat grass, juniper stands and dry as a bone due to extensive drought. Nobody thought it necessary in the early part of the 21st century to make any changes, they just kept running their trap and Unwilling to take on any restrictions in technology so much of the deer perished long ago.

 

[HOT ROD]

As a resident of Wyoming I hope area G never goes to LQ... What would really help G is a 7 day season and all the units have the same start dates.. Pretty hard for bucks to hide from hunters for 3 weeks straight.. But WG&F couldnt even cut the season to two weeks because the outfitters would scream bloody marry.. JMO

 

[Southforkguy]

As a resident of Wyoming I hope area G never goes to LQ... What would really help G is a 7 day season and all the units have the same start dates.. Pretty hard for bucks to hide from hunters for 3 weeks straight.. But WG&F couldnt even cut the season to two weeks because the outfitters would scream bloody marry.. JMO

I like this concept. Because at this point we are all talking hypothetical solutions in this thread anyway. Make it a 7 or 9 day season area wide then pull off the pressure. Maybe give a few late season tags. One thing I think wyoming does well is a one buck/year per hunter.

 

[ColoradoV]

My limited opinion sitting here while wishing I would have gone fishing for lakers lol....

Or I would think about breaking g down into archery or rifle choice not both either or for everyone in G. Go to draw for residents at a low level (draw 1-2 years) as with the pressure it gets now I believe to be unstainable. Breaking the hunt into 2 groups eats points 2x as fast as well as gets more $$ in the coffers..

My perspective is also a nr who only likes to hunt very big bucks. You boys have a world class habitat /genetics and as I dont see too many limitations to the catch all or "tech" the most viable solution would be to limit tags and methods of take.. Do that and IMO another Morty or Popeye returns. With out any change and while with work a few great bucks will get taken I just dont see it getting better. I have the points to draw g and think about it every year but in the end choose to stick closer to home.

 

[robby denning]

in my experience, a 7 day season would result in unimagined overcrowding. Everyone would be there all at once. Has been tried in Colorado late 90's with 3-day season, Idaho with 5 day rifle elk, both failures. Short seasons sound good on paper.

a common starting date of units in S. G with those in N. G would drop pressure a bit, like when they made H and G both open on 9/15 vs. the 10th in H and 20th in G. That was about 20 years ago and obviously it wasn't a long term solution as here we are again.

And I don't blame those residents for not wanting to give up their ability to hunt yearly, based on NR opinion.

It's their resource to manage as they see fit.

 

[6.5Express]

Im a resident and hunt western wyoming general deer every year. I dont even apply for a limited quota license. Mostly because I absolutely love that country and the deer that live there, but also because I'm not aware of an LQ hunt in the state that I'd prefer to hunt. There are (pre-covid) less than 600,000 people in all of Wyoming. Im guessing thats roughly half the population of SLC and a quarter of Denver. The only hunters ive ran into while up there are guides and non residents. I dont feel, from my perspective and experience, that limiting residents will have much of an impact.

 

[6.5Express]

I highly agree with Robby that confining the hunt season to a smaller window would result in chaos if opening day isnt enough already.

 

[Elkdreamer]

I have read this thread and have no pan in the fire. I do not know the area or hunt the state,

What about over grazing of the winter range?

IMHO that is the biggest factor of the mule deer decline in my home state of Oregon. It is sickening to see the stubble and lack of food for the deer on the winter range. No way to rebuild a herd if they have so little to eat in the winter. I say a complete mismanagement of resources.

 

[6.5Express]

I have read this thread and have no pan in the fire. I do not know the area or hunt the state,

What about over grazing of the winter range?

IMHO that is the biggest factor of the mule deer decline in my home state of Oregon. It is sickening to see the stubble and lack of food for the deer on the winter range. No way to rebuild a herd if they have so little to eat in the winter. I say a complete mismanagement of resources.

I havent spent a lot of time on those winter ranges, but i can attest to extreme overgrazing of summer range in places. I've seen some of those high basins licked clean by bands of sheep that camped out way too long

 

[Elkdreamer]

Thanks for your input 6.5Express.

I know the ranchers need the resource also. However, there is a need to start the talk of a solution. The resource is limited and we all have an interest in the land.

I have talked with the local BLM people in my area. Their response was "we have told the rancher it is time to get his heard out because it is chewed to dirt. However, he refuses to move his heard until he says its time".

Hmm guess the government has no desire to enforce common sense. The land has many needs. Sad to see it used up by one need.

 

[204guy]

- long range hunting kills a few bucks. As BR points out those guys would probably be killing deer at short range anyway. Guys like to banter on about 600 or 800yds like deer are being killed at those ranges all the time and its no big deal. Reality is, the number of guys that can consistently kill deer past 600yds in mountain conditions is miniscule.

-archery is also not removing many top end deer. Putting pressure in the mountains yes, killing deer not so much.

- the elk idea is interesting, I've hardly seen an elk in there. I have seen many basins absolutely devastated by domestic sheep.

 

[highfastflyer]

My limited opinion sitting here while wishing I would have gone fishing for lakers lol....

Or I would think about breaking g down into archery or rifle choice not both either or for everyone in G. Go to draw for residents at a low level (draw 1-2 years) as with the pressure it gets now I believe to be unstainable. Breaking the hunt into 2 groups eats points 2x as fast as well as gets more $$ in the coffers..

My perspective is also a nr who only likes to hunt very big bucks. You boys have a world class habitat /genetics and as I dont see too many limitations to the catch all or "tech" the most viable solution would be to limit tags and methods of take.. Do that and IMO another Morty or Popeye returns. With out any change and while with work a few great bucks will get taken I just dont see it getting better. I have the points to draw g and think about it every year but in the end choose to stick closer to home.

You obviously don’t understand how politics and the Wyoming resident hunt structure work. Firstly, there is NO preference point system for residents for deer and elk and antelope. Those are only a non-resident scheme. Trying to make Western Wyoming limited is the equivalent of trying to propose you want to start a state income tax. Hint, it ain’t never gonna happen. If you have seen the literal vitriol hatred and almost raging protests every time this gets brought up at a Wyoming Wildlife Commission meeting you would see it is now getting very political. The biologist and the Game Wardens tow the company line that the satisfaction surveys are some of the highest in the state so we are doing it right when in reality we know the area is is steep steep decline. Hardly any big bucks on the Winter ranges left or they certainly never showed up on the Winter ranges this year. I think they have mostly been shot up. Now every 3+ year old buck even though still small forked and not much past his ears gets dropped on opening morning. A few solutions which are viable to keep it General for the residents yet try and decrease the harvest are a two year license with only one coupon attached so if you kill the first year you sit out. Area 135 opens on Oct 1st and the pressure is intense there. All the hunters who hunted up North in the Salt River range come flooding down into area 135 to hunt an additional opener. All areas in Region G and region H should be standardized to the Sept. 15th opener and the season shortened to just a 10 day season. A 9X scope limitation and NO trail cams allowed. We also desperately need far more Cow elk tags as they are eating the place out of house and home. Someone brought up the condition of the Winter range and it is horrific. It is now just the largest Gas field in the lower 48 with thousands upon thousands of oil drilling equipment, wells, pipelines and Gas supply system infrastructure. Now we have CWD moving into the Wyoming Range and the antis want to close the 23 state elk feed ground lots. If we do this we now have another 100,000 elk out there eating and competing with wintering deer who now have old chewed up age classes of Wyoming sagebrush stands that haven’t flowered in a few years due to the drought. Add to this Wyoming politics who don’t want any limited quota changes and many state legislators have to swear an oath to uphold that or they get booted. It is truly a Sad picture.

 

[highfastflyer]

- long range hunting kills a few bucks. As BR points out those guys would probably be killing deer at short range anyway. Guys like to banter on about 600 or 800yds like deer are being killed at those ranges all the time and its no big deal. Reality is, the number of guys that can consistently kill deer past 600yds in mountain conditions is miniscule.

-archery is also not removing many top end deer. Putting pressure in the mountains yes, killing deer not so much.

- the elk idea is interesting, I've hardly seen an elk in there. I have seen many basins absolutely devastated by domestic sheep.

Go watch Monster Muley videos as nearly every video he posts has some elk in them in late Summer in those high alpine basins. Over 20% of the Wyoming elk population uses the elk feed lots in Western Wyoming. They are way way above Objective. Add up all those elk and those are the animals competing for Summer forage. Lastly listen what Dr. Monteith’s research shows in this podcast. He is a treasure of knowledge for Wyoming on range, ecology and nutrition for ungulates. If you have an hour listen to the whole podcast. Fascinating. If not skip to the 20 minute mark. https://www.nwfoutdoors.org/2020/09/

 

[blacktail sniper]

I hope your right on the no state income tax!! Things keep going like they are may need one unfortunately but thats for another thread

 

[Fatcamp]

Livestock on public lands is an issue for sure. Here is SD we see School lands grazed to the dirt while all the surrounding land is in great shape with plenty of browse left. I'm certain it's the same herds, but the ranchers could care less about public. See the same in the grasslands. The land they herd back to is in great shape after leaving cattle out until it is down to nothing. These are the same people who "check cattle" the day before the season opens.

 

[ColoradoV]

You obviously don’t understand how politics and the Wyoming resident hunt structure work. Firstly, there is NO preference point system for residents for deer and elk and antelope. Those are only a non-resident scheme. Trying to make Western Wyoming limited is the equivalent of trying to propose you want to start a state income tax. Hint, it ain’t never gonna happen. If you have seen the literal vitriol hatred and almost raging protests every time this gets brought up at a Wyoming Wildlife Commission meeting you would see it is now getting very political. The biologist and the Game Wardens tow the company line that the satisfaction surveys are some of the highest in the state so we are doing it right when in reality we know the area is is steep steep decline. Hardly any big bucks on the Winter ranges left or they certainly never showed up on the Winter ranges this year. I think they have mostly been shot up. Now every 3+ year old buck even though still small forked and not much past his ears gets dropped on opening morning. A few solutions which are viable to keep it General for the residents yet try and decrease the harvest are a two year license with only one coupon attached so if you kill the first year you sit out. Area 135 opens on Oct 1st and the pressure is intense there. All the hunters who hunted up North in the Salt River range come flooding down into area 135 to hunt an additional opener. All areas in Region G and region H should be standardized to the Sept. 15th opener and the season shortened to just a 10 day season. A 9X scope limitation and NO trail cams allowed. We also desperately need far more Cow elk tags as they are eating the place out of house and home. Someone brought up the condition of the Winter range and it is horrific. It is now just the largest Gas field in the lower 48 with thousands upon thousands of oil drilling equipment, wells, pipelines and Gas supply system infrastructure. Now we have CWD moving into the Wyoming Range and the antis want to close the 23 state elk feed ground lots. If we do this we now have another 100,000 elk out there eating and competing with wintering deer who now have old chewed up age classes of Wyoming sagebrush stands that haven’t flowered in a few years due to the drought. Add to this Wyoming politics who don’t want any limited quota changes and many state legislators have to swear an oath to uphold that or they get booted. It is truly a Sad picture.

Man I agree it is not in a good spot and have no faith any measurable action will be taken anytime soon.. Understand why the locals want to hunt every year as it seems most are happy with a trend of ever lower age class buck just the way it is.

Again I full and well believe this is an academic but I have seen how a state with burdening population growth (I know 4 Colo families that moved to wyo this year) was able to move to draw for deer and how it drastically improved both the age class and herd health. You just need to turn to the record books to see how that worked out... Good luck to you boys hunting G - it is such a cool place I hope it at least gets to a sustainable level sometime soon.

 

[JP7]

As a person who grew up and lives in G, the topics of residents being very very against going to a draw is real and insane. Every year talking to other locals I hear about how many non-residents there are and how it’s ruining the hunting. Which just proves they didn’t really read the reg book because there’s only 400 NR tags. It’s more the fact that every resident now wants to come over. Growing up it was mostly Wyoming people from the surrounding areas (Lincoln, Uintah, Sweetwater, and Sublette counties) with the typically non “local” Wyoming person being someone who grew up in the area and moved out for work coming home to hunt with the family. The last few years I’ve seen people from counties on the far eastern border of Wyoming. G isn’t a secret and everyone wants to hunt it in Wyoming it sees. The residents who don’t want to go limited also campaign for people who don’t live in Lincoln county to pay an extra fee like non residents do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HOT ROD]

A seven day season is a little extreme but it mite be better than doing nothing.. A 10 to 14 day season with all units with the same starting date was suggested a few times but the commission would not make a decision on it.. Probably because the outfitters would of screamed bloody marry.. And if they try to make it LQ residents will scream bloody marry again.. Maybe the commission need to make residents pick the general area and they only hunt there. This would give the commission a really good idea on how many resident are hunting G...

 

[highfastflyer]

A seven day season is a little extreme but it mite be better than doing nothing.. A 10 to 14 day season with all units with the same starting date was suggested a few times but the commission would not make a decision on it.. Probably because the outfitters would of screamed bloody marry.. And if they try to make it LQ residents will scream bloody marry again.. Maybe the commission need to make residents pick the general area and they only hunt there. This would give the commission a really good idea on how many resident are hunting G...

The compromise would be a 14 day season. The big bucks just can’t withstand 21 days of intense Outfitter pressure but 2 weeks is at least a step in the right direction. Instead of choosing a region, mandatory online surveys for ALL hunters should be required. I think another possible solution is a two year license if you hunt region G or H with only one tag coupon attached so f you harvest in the first year you cannot hunt the 2 nd year. Other options might be eliminate the General archery hunt and go to a Type 9 limited draw archery hunt much like many of the Bighorns Elk units are now limited for archery.