disappointing hunt in G

[Cowbell]

I agree with your thoughts on grazing. I outfitted where my neighbor had a grazing permit for his cattle. That I can live with. But the problem was no enforcement of the regulations. Too many cattle out there and not removing them by the required date. They get around that by the allowance of stragglers. That number is 10% of the number they are permitted to have on national forest. But there’s no way to verify or document how many are still out there. The result was over grazing. But it’s a century old problem in what was originally a ranch based community and you will NEVER change it.

I had every bale of hay that took weeks to pack in for the season eaten in a half day by stragglers. Way more stragglers than there should be. I called the forest service and their reply is always the same like it’s a recording: He’s not breaking any rules you guys need to get along.

As far as outfitters it’s always interesting to me to see how people with an opinions they strongly believe in don’t take a minute to look at things from other perspectives. Yes an outfitter profits from operating on public land. But he was asked to do so by someone from the public who wants to enjoy the land just like everyone else but they don’t have the way and means to do it without assistance. This is also something that has gone on for a hundred years. What makes you say it no longer has a place? The hunter has to draw the license. Wyoming has no outfitter set aside licenses. Should diy hunters like us have preference when it comes to land use?

What about the other businesses doing business on public land? Fishing guides, horse rides, tour guides, rock climbing guides and mountain bike tours? Or don’t they matter because they aren’t competing for the same resources?

Outfitters don’t bother me. Yes they eliminate a drainage or 2 from my options. But they are easy to work around. My perspective when I see a guide pull up to my trailhead and unload 4 horses and 2 city slickers is that I feel sorry for him. Elk hunting is tough enough without having a ball and chain or two around your ankle. The guide might be tough but he’s limited by the abilities of his hunter. His out of shape unacclimated hunter.

I draw the line at special consideration known here as outfitter welfare. That’s when politics get involved with hunting. Having outfitter sponsored licenses, allowing outfitters to utilize landowner tags, and the bullshit wilderness restriction are not fair. I’m into equal opportunity when it comes to licensing and public land access. As long as an outfitter and his hunters are on the same playing field as me I can live with them. A guided hunter is no different to me than any other hunter. Same goes with ranchers. The rules are the rules. Their rules are different but I have to accept that. Most of them don’t hunt. I like that!

That said… don’t let Rob Wiley fool you. He speaks up for mule deer because it benefits him. If he was guiding trophy opossum hunts he’d be a spokesman for opossums and wouldn’t give a shit about the deer. He probably exploits the deer more than anyone. He’s not winning any popularity contests in the Star Valley.

Considering outfitting - Here is why I have a problem with it. Let's say I want to pay you to go scout for me in region G.... is that legal? And why or why not?
Let's say Im an outfitter and I find a big deer in July and I decide to pay young "guides" to sit on that deer until my client gets there for the opener? Is that legal? Is it fair chase? Is it good for the ecosystem and the betterment of hunting? Is it a level playing field for all the other hunters that have been scouting and can't sit on a deer because they aren't outfitters and can't pay guides to sit on it?
Outfitters are king in Wyoming and it has gone way too far. They are exploiting a natural resource as a whole. And I believe there are still some good players out there but they are few and far between.

 

[Cowbell]

Because they live there. Period. They have always hunted there and they are factored into the management plan. The deer hunting is still good so the plan is working. Otherwise we wouldn’t be talking about it.

The reason it takes so many points has nothing to do with Wyoming resident hunters. It’s me and you and the increasing number of non resident hunters competing for the NR tags that is causing that.

I personally think there should be antler restrictions there. It affects everyone equally. That’s just my opinion as a hunter who is not looking for meat when it comes to deer. I’m a bone collector! But I talked to Gary Fralick the biologist about that and he said it wouldn’t matter because they aren’t seeing a significant amount of small deer being killed.

The other thing that F&G will tell you is that hunting isn’t the number one factor in the quality and quantity of deer. It’s old man winter.

Your last sentence is why I have a problem with grazing. The cows on the greys river hammer that valley grass all summer that would be great feed for both deer and elk in the hard months.

 

[Indian Summer]

Considering outfitting - Here is why I have a problem with it. Let's say I want to pay you to go scout for me in region G.... is that legal? And why or why not?
Let's say Im an outfitter and I find a big deer in July and I decide to pay young "guides" to sit on that deer until my client gets there for the opener? Is that legal? Is it fair chase? Is it good for the ecosystem and the betterment of hunting? Is it a level playing field for all the other hunters that have been scouting and can't sit on a deer because they aren't outfitters and can't pay guides to sit on it?
Outfitters are king in Wyoming and it has gone way too far. They are exploiting a natural resource as a whole. And I believe there are still some good players out there but they are few and far between.

I understand and agree with that Cowbell. But realistically how often does that happen? Hardly ever. The outfits that do that are very few and far between. The ones like Doyle Moss’s Mossback Outfitters who are getting 25-40k for world record animals and can afford to pay guys to babysit are very few. No outfitter wants to or can afford to pay guides to do that. Mossback’s clients can afford to buy governor’s tags. How many guys on Rokslide can do that!

I have a friend that guides for Rob Wiley. If anyone would do that he would. But he doesn’t. His money is spent on aviation fuel to locate bucks and take pictures of them while flying. I don’t know if that’s an even playing field but F&G has already put restrictions on that. Come hunting season he doesn’t know exactly where that buck might be. It’s not the same especially since he can no longer fly after August 1st. Outfitters are busy before the start of the season. Setting camps trucking hay and before deer season they’re guiding archery elk hunters.

To be clear keeping tabs on a particular animal is not an issue. You’re paying for a guide to know the lay of the land and where animals are likely to be. I’ll add that there aren’t many guys out there who could afford to pay the costs involved to have guides hanging out in the mountains for a month before they get there. So if that’s a primary reason why you don’t care for outfitters I wouldn’t worry about it. Most guides go to bed and wake up like any other hunter thinking hmm… where should I take this guy hunting today??? They are babysitting flatlanders not deer.

 

[kscowboy01]

The biologist called me after I spoke with the game warden and she’s been nothing short of awesome. I saved the teeth for her and she’s sending me an old collar as a souvenir. They have some data to extract from my collar and will reuse it. As much as I’d like to keep it, we’re conservationists before anything and we raise money at all these banquets for this very reason. It’s on its way to Laramie now.

Some texts from her:

“Wow, that’s great! He’s nice! He grew from last year - here’s his measurements from when we caught him in December 2021”

“I’ll put more of these on a thumb drive for you in the box with the collar, but here are a couple photos from when he was eating aspens late last December. He’s a lot bigger this year!”

The scoring sheet is from last year when they tagged him.

I’m going to agree with what was said earlier and it’s not a 9+ year old deer. He was missing some teeth but from the pics she sent me, he is in that 4.5-5.5 age category. It’s amazing how much bone he made over the last year. Let them go and watch them grow—proof that this is so crucial.

 

[Hoosker Doo]

There was definitely a lot of hunting pressure. We saw multiple other hunters and had the guy that walked through our bowl on Day 3 done it on Day 4 of my hunt, he would've blown my deer out. Wyoming probably needs to deviate from the General status for residents if it wants it to be a premier trophy unit in the future.

I live in region G. It's awesome that we have some huge mule deer. I'm no trophy hunter, but have a couple in the 170's and my brother and dad have 1 or 2 in the 190's. However, I don't love and choose to live in Wyoming for the trophy potential. It's all about opportunity.
I love a nice set of antlers, but I rely on filling my freezer every year for around $50/tag and a lot of work and sweat. I have never bought hamburger from the store, and love that Wyoming has opted not to make hunting a "rich man's sport" (quote from previous governor) and gives us access to use our resources. Some of the most rewarding and memorable hunts I've been on have been 2 point bucks or cow elk that came when we needed them most.
That hunter that almost ruined your hunt by "intruding" in your basin has probably hunted that area for years and just knows it's a good spot to find a nice buck, but doesn't have the means to sit up there for days on end waiting to connect.
I love that people want to come here and enjoy what we have, but what leaves a bad taste in the mouth is when NR's, outfitters, and even some good ol' boy residents think that they can lay claim to an area or even animals because of thousands of dollars, years of points, days of leave, "hunting that spot for years", etc invested into the hunt. Live and let live. I choose to live in Wyoming for the amazing opportunity, no matter if you're young, old, rich or poor, you can get out there, punch a tag, and put some meat in the freezer.

 

[kscowboy01]

How about some pictures? Was one of your guides Franco Simone? Hard working guy. Worked for me in Montana for awhile.

Congratulations on a successful hunt and thanks for keeping your word and following up with a report. I’ll hunt it diy next year and my goal is the same. I’ll spend 2 full weeks on top. Pretty excited about the hunt. It seems like the deer are continuing to bounce back from the hard winters a few years ago.

Franco was in camp but was in on the other 2 successful hunts in our camp. He definitely knows his stuff and we've been messaging back and forth since my departure. Unfortunately, I never got to hit the mountain with Franco.