Defund the Police?

[Shrek]

The problem is anyone under about 35 has no idea about how we got here or what problems have been solved. The 1994 crime bill is demonized. Younger people have no sense of the issues that brought the 1994 crime bill into being. The problems that broken windows policing solved. I remember most cities having tremendous problems with all types of crime. Bars on widows and doors in most working class neighborhoods. Starting in the early eighties laws started getting much tougher with longer and longer sentences. The height of this trend was the ‘94 crime bill. We put millions in jail for decades. And it worked ! Crime fell like off a cliff. Crime is nothing like when I was young. Now the pendulum is swinging back hard and the crime wave will follow. Already cities are burning and when middle Americans no longer feel safe the pendulum will swing back. People who don’t learn history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. Those most able will flee and take their industry and dollars with them. Liberal run big cities which have enjoyed a renaissance since the streets were made safe in the late nineties will again fall into hard decline. Places like Minneapolis and Seattle will develop huge no go zones where criminals rule. Their finances will crumble as the wealthy and upper middle class flee. Detroit and Flint are the future of Minneapolis. Crime has returned to Times Square and all the nice stores will soon close.

 

[Rokwiia]

I find the flip flop on both sides of the isle hilarious. The left "don't go out and close the churches because of COVID, but mass demonstrations are ok in this case." The right "COVID restriction infringe on my rights, but we should support the violent suppression of peaceful assemblies."

Please provide the name of one notable person on the Right who has said they support "violent suppression of peaceful assemblies."

 

[Huntindog45]

I am probably going to get flamed for this by a few that disagree with me but....her it is .. I am a huge believer there needs to be a gigantic overhaul on the way the police do their job. It needs to start at the recruiting level and it needs to go all the way to the top. I also believe that "defund the police" is a terrible slogan and will be interpreted in many ways it does not truly mean. I have a small background as a LEO and I can honestly say that my time in the Academy made me more afraid of the police than anything I have ever experienced in any interaction with other police agencies. I am about as straight edge as it gets, I am a fairly large white male and cops scare the hell out of me still. I cannot imagine being a black man in an area with really bad officers.
I went through an academy that was 100% sponsored. All 35-40 cadets had jobs, they had gone through a hiring process, background checks, psych evals etc. 15 of those individuals I would not want watching my dog. It was extremely eye opening. I thought the academy itself was sort of a joke. Having already graduated from college with a bachelors degree I can say 99% of the intellectual information was presented at about the level of an easy 100 level college course. I know other officers that teach at different academies and they all tend to agree that is pretty consistent. I can honestly say I never cracked a single book, studied or did any extra prep work for any test and I passed everything very easily, including the POST exam. Generally speaking it is not tough. The worst part about the academy was how from day one you are pretty much taught that everything can kill you. They show you videos of some super ninja attacking a guy with a ballpoint pen and use that to imply it is better to shoot first. (I know I am way oversimplifying this but that is how it feels) The use of force continuum changed from answer threat of deadly force with deadly force to answer threat of getting your uniform dirty with deadly force. There needs to be so much more training on deescalation of force.
What I continued to see since that time is that departments are all generally poorly funded, they pay crap and as such they often times get pretty crappy people as officers. Your typical 20 year old white boy who always wanted to be a cop can be a fairly scary individual. I know there are agencies that pay a little more, have far more strict hiring standards and as such they get a different grade of applicant. One agency I know of will only hire officers with four year degrees and they do not even recruit at law enforcement type events. They recruit teachers, business owners, other professionals. I also know those departments have far less legal trouble of their own down the road. Long and short of it: "defunding" the police is a terrible way to look at solving this problem. I would love to see the way police agencies spend existing money, the way they recruit and train officers and the way officers interact with the public change dramatically.

 

[WCB]

Well, that’s from the mouth of one person and probably one of the more extreme positions. That being said, some or even many of these demand align with the philosophies of libertarianism.

I agree with looking at budgets and if the community can organize a reasonable response to some minor things to free up police or something of that nature...hey lets figure it out. Unfortunately the MPLS city council majority has this view point...they vote on these things. These specific people are not libertarian in any sense...(I guess in certain aspects they are when it suits their liberal agenda).

 

[Carr5vols]

Seattle is the same way. Matter of fact, they have taken a small section of the city and barricaded themselves in with signs claiming 'Now Leaving USA'. Crazy times, I grab my popcorn nightly before I sit down and watch the news.

They should build a wall around that area and let them fend for themselves for a while.

 

[Marbles]

Please provide the name of one notable person on the Right who has said they support "violent suppression of peaceful assemblies."

Those are meant to be impressions, not actual quotes of anyone. No one has directly said that, however their actions, and refusal to condemn such suppression provides the basis for that impression. Example is Trump having rubber bullets and tear gas employed to to drive away peaceful protesters so he could have a photo op. The use of battlefield language to discuses management of ones own citizens who are not in armed revolt lends further support to this impression.

 

[Fadetoblack188]

Semi off topic..but anyone that posted, other than Rmauch....have Law Enforcement time?

Anyone ever tried to put a dude into the back seat of a rig....that doesn't want to go there?

Or cuff anyone that isn't too keen on being cuffed?

yes sir.. i know exactly what your ssaying,

 

[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

I don't envy the police. I can't understand why anyone would even want be a cop.

Unfortunately, the police need to be above reproach in every aspect to have the trust of the public and the respect of me.

I get why people who live in higher crime areas don't like the police. If they are first seen as a potential criminal before they are seen as the person the police exist to serve it would cause bad blood. I've had a few eye opening conversations with black friends where they were treated differently than I have been regarding our interactions with police.

The statistics don't support the idea of sytemic racism in our LEO community nation wide and to defund them would only hurt the minority communities even more.

I think the biggest issue is to limit the kind of things police are used for. We have to many laws that necessitate interactions. eventually you'll have one go sideways and people wind up dead.

 

[jmez]

They should just send them all home and see what happens.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I seriously don’t know how today’s LEO’s do it. That some serious love of community, to put up with escalating liabilities and BS with no end insight. Thank you

 

[jmez]

LE is not different than any other profession or walk of life. It fits the bell curve. There is a small % of really bad ones, the majority fall in the middle, and there is a small % of really good ones. You never hear about the masses in the middle.

 

[Michael Pawul]

In what world does defund = eliminate?

Anything funded by public $ has bloat. The PD is no exception.

de·fund
/dēˈfənd/

verb
US
verb: defund; 3rd person present: defunds; past tense: defunded; past participle: defunded; gerund or present participle: defunding; verb: de-fund; 3rd person present: de-funds; past tense: de-funded; past participle: de-funded; gerund or present participle: de-funding

1. prevent from continuing to receive funds.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

LE is not different than any other profession or walk of life. It fits the bell curve. There is a small % of really bad ones, the majority fall in the middle, and there is a small % of really good ones. You never hear about the masses in the middle.

Drastically disagree.....it's completely different.

 

[*zap*]

What is going on is 'they' are going to give in on all kinds of things to '[energize' the anti Trump base so he looses and what 'they' want most to be re-elected. If Trump wins they will burn the country down.

It is all political, these are not social or practical ideas they are political actions.

 

[Rokwiia]

Those are meant to be impressions, not actual quotes of anyone. No one has directly said that, however their actions, and refusal to condemn such suppression provides the basis for that impression. Example is Trump having rubber bullets and tear gas employed to to drive away peaceful protesters so he could have a photo op. The use of battlefield language to discuses management of ones own citizens who are not in armed revolt lends further support to this impression.

I'm not aware of any instance where rubber bullets and tear gas were used unlawfully against peaceful protestors. If you're claiming there was, then please name the location, circumstance, date, and time specifically.

You're the one making an allegation and bear the responsibility to back it up with facts.

 

[Bobbyboe]

I am probably going to get flamed for this by a few that disagree with me but....her it is .. I am a huge believer there needs to be a gigantic overhaul on the way the police do their job. It needs to start at the recruiting level and it needs to go all the way to the top. I also believe that "defund the police" is a terrible slogan and will be interpreted in many ways it does not truly mean. I have a small background as a LEO and I can honestly say that my time in the Academy made me more afraid of the police than anything I have ever experienced in any interaction with other police agencies. I am about as straight edge as it gets, I am a fairly large white male and cops scare the hell out of me still. I cannot imagine being a black man in an area with really bad officers.
I went through an academy that was 100% sponsored. All 35-40 cadets had jobs, they had gone through a hiring process, background checks, psych evals etc. 15 of those individuals I would not want watching my dog. It was extremely eye opening. I thought the academy itself was sort of a joke. Having already graduated from college with a bachelors degree I can say 99% of the intellectual information was presented at about the level of an easy 100 level college course. I know other officers that teach at different academies and they all tend to agree that is pretty consistent. I can honestly say I never cracked a single book, studied or did any extra prep work for any test and I passed everything very easily, including the POST exam. Generally speaking it is not tough. The worst part about the academy was how from day one you are pretty much taught that everything can kill you. They show you videos of some super ninja attacking a guy with a ballpoint pen and use that to imply it is better to shoot first. (I know I am way oversimplifying this but that is how it feels) The use of force continuum changed from answer threat of deadly force with deadly force to answer threat of getting your uniform dirty with deadly force. There needs to be so much more training on deescalation of force.
What I continued to see since that time is that departments are all generally poorly funded, they pay crap and as such they often times get pretty crappy people as officers. Your typical 20 year old white boy who always wanted to be a cop can be a fairly scary individual. I know there are agencies that pay a little more, have far more strict hiring standards and as such they get a different grade of applicant. One agency I know of will only hire officers with four year degrees and they do not even recruit at law enforcement type events. They recruit teachers, business owners, other professionals. I also know those departments have far less legal trouble of their own down the road. Long and short of it: "defunding" the police is a terrible way to look at solving this problem. I would love to see the way police agencies spend existing money, the way they recruit and train officers and the way officers interact with the public change dramatically.

Fairly accurate. Garbage pay, equals garbage candidates. In addition, harsh public criticism of ALL cops pushes good cops away.

 

[Ten Bears]

The irony is that the ones screaming for the most radical change in their cities have been in control of their cities for at least 40 years.

 

[Opah]

Not to be to one bad apple in the bunch, but I watched as the Cypress, Ca police department was overhauled and a lot of bad elements removed. By the end of the process they had a better more efficient and less corrupt police force.
I do not believe this is what BLM or the rest of these factions has in mind, they have to break down what is to build the NWO they want.
Best believe when all hits the fan one must be able to defend them selves

 

[Marbles]

I'm not aware of any instance where rubber bullets and tear gas were used unlawfully against peaceful protestors. If you're claiming there was, then please name the location, circumstance, date, and time specifically.

You're the one making an allegation and bear the responsibility to back it up with facts.

You are shifting the meaning. I never said "unlawfully" and as anyone who follows the legal system knows "lawful" is largely subject to the interpretation of a judge informed by both statutes and case law.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/01/george-floyd-protests-live-updates/

Peaceful Protesters Tear-Gassed To Clear Way For Trump Church Photo-Op

After U.S. Park Police and National Guard troops pushed demonstrators out of Lafayette Park, President Trump walked from the White House to St. John's Church where he posed for pictures with a Bible.

www.npr.org

A photo op as protests swirled: how Trump came to walk to the church

Trump’s decision to walk to St John’s to be photographed with the Bible was another extraordinary decision made on the hoof

www.theguardian.com

What the ATF did to Randy Weaver was not unlawful, but it was wrong. What they did at Waco, TX also was never found to be unlawful. Nor was Operation Fast and Furious under Obama ever found to be unlawful. Nor was Hillary's use of a private email server. Nor was anything surrounding Benghazi. I guess you strongly support all those as well.

 

[Okhotnik]

“Among plans put forward by Black Lives Matter, MPD150 and other activists to replace police are:

Mental health responders to attend mental health crisis in place of armed police
(good luck with that. In my time 20+ as a police officer I dealt with some pretty violent people on mental health crisis calls. Have fun with those those they are total time sucks anyway)

Street outreach teams, more shelters and affordable housing to help solve homelessness and stop the homeless from being criminalized
(sounds good what does the funding come from?)

Traffic stops to be eliminated entirely, with traffic violations dealt with via. mail
(so we’re not going to enforce DUI’s anymore? That’s probably a solid choice I mean drunk drivers don’t really ever kill anyone on the road. This should go along ways to decreasing drug trafficking as well. )

Community members to attend domestic violence calls, to help intervene and establish long-term safety for the individuals
(Again have fun with those. It’s called domestic violence for a reason, the offender is a violent person. I don’t know if he or she will react well when a counselor and pastor show up to tell him to change his ways. Will probably end up getting their ass kicked in the front lawn as well.)

Specialized physical and emotional support for victims of sexual violence
(not a bad idea.)

Investing in prevention of sex trafficking to end economic and social conditions that lead to deeply rooted vulnerabilities
(again not a bad idea)

The legalization of marijuana to stop incarceration for the 'harmless' drug
(Agree)

Better handling of drug offences to stop 'criminalizing of communities of color'
( ok I guess, not sure what this entails.)

Decriminalization of sex work and formation of an independent union to ensure individuals have insurance, child care and safety precautions
(This could be a positive)

Restorative justice (meetings between victim and offender) to be used to deal with property crimes such as theft and burglary
(WTF! This isn't the dumbest idea they’ve had but it’s pretty ******* stupid)

not one word or plan to help the millions of victims of violent crime every year. Tells exactly what selfish mindless idiots these clowns are.