Defund the Police?

[jmez]

Just read an article where Chauvin will still receive his entire pension even if convicted. Annual payments of around 50K.

 

[Poser]

Just read an article where Chauvin will still receive his entire pension even if convicted. Annual payments of around 50K.

Pretty good annual canteen budget.

 

[Newtosavage]

A lot of the issues have to be fixed from WITHIN the black community!

When such a small % of the population contributes to a large % of the total crimes it puts people on edge from the start. Is it right? Maybe not but it is what it is!

Yet, you hardly ever see these people ridiculing their own, they stick together no matter what and cover for each other whether right or wrong.

This country is probably the most equal there is that has the level of prosperity it does! There’s a reason The immigration of people into this country of ALL TYPES is much higher than the amount of people LEAVING!



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That might be the most racist response I've read yet.

Who are "these people" ?

smh

 

[Where's Bruce?]

We are soooooooo overdue for a civil war in this nation. Now more than ever we need to DEFEND the Police.

 

[sasquatch]

That might be the most racist response I've read yet.

Who are "these people" ?

smh

It’s racist because you only want to see what you want and not the real truth.


Any and every one of the animals destroying peoples property thinking that’s going to get them respect

How maMy of these “protesters” are working and paying taxes??


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[sasquatch]

its racist because you only choose to see what you WANT TO.

Any and every one of the animals destroying peoples property thinking that’s going to get them respect

How maMy of these “protesters” are working and paying taxes??


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[Newtosavage]

you see what you want to see. I will go with 1st medical examiner's report prior to influencers.

Of course you will. Because of exactly what you said.

We focus on where our hearts lie.

 

[Newtosavage]

We are soooooooo overdue for a civil war in this nation. Now more than ever we need to DEFEND the Police.

well if any president would produce one, it's this guy. It would suit his interests too.

 

[Beendare]

Folks are just starting to talk about the REAL PROBLEM; The public workers unions.

The police union is the entity protecting these bad cops. Its only when good cops and everyone else puts pressure on these unions to stop protecting the bad apples will we see change.

Its the same with the teachers union; protecting teachers that should have been fired years ago. When the good teachers stand up against it- we will see change.

Now we see this Chauvin had multiple complaints- 16,18 something like that. My initial thought was "Bad cop" but my LEO buddies laugh. "Everyone complains" is their commentary....Walk a mile in their shoes. Everyone they pull over wants their badge number. From the rich boy pulled over for speeding...to the wife that was practically beat to death by her husband...then changes her ind and now hates the cops that saved her life.....everyone complains about the cops.

So it seems, I rushed to judgement on the "Complaints" issue...that in and of itself without knowing what the complaints were for does us no good to pass judgement.

____

 

[Mike7]

One of the only good things that might come out of this would be to break the stranglehold on cities by the incestuous relationship between public employee unions, the lawyers guild, and dem politicians...but sadly, I doubt that will happen.

If we are talking anecdotes with respect to racism, since progressives are immune to statistics, I had two black roommates through college, in a predominately white town with predominantly white police dept. Never once did we ever have problems with the police or get treated differently.

My one roommate, who grew up in the south instead of on the west coast like the rest of us, would occasionally go looking for problems a bit by being loud and obnoxious, and thinking people (not usually police though) were looking at him because he was black. But he always had the rest of us there to assure him that people were only staring at him because he was being a dick, and not because he was black, and that he needed to quit drinking.

Perhaps these snot nosed violent destructive white and black "protesters" need more people, including the media, to tell them that they are being dicks, rather than making excuses for them.

 

[rodney482]

Unions should be abolished across the board. They serve no purpose. While we are getting rid of things lobbying should be illegal.

Folks are just starting to talk about the REAL PROBLEM; The public workers unions.

The police union is the entity protecting these bad cops. Its only when good cops and everyone else puts pressure on these unions to stop protecting the bad apples will we see change.

Its the same with the teachers union; protecting teachers that should have been fired years ago. When the good teachers stand up against it- we will see change.

Now we see this Chauvin had multiple complaints- 16,18 something like that. My initial thought was "Bad cop" but my LEO buddies laugh. "Everyone complains" is their commentary....Walk a mile in their shoes. Everyone they pull over wants their badge number. From the rich boy pulled over for speeding...to the wife that was practically beat to death by her husband...then changes her ind and now hates the cops that saved her life.....everyone complains about the cops.

So it seems, I rushed to judgement on the "Complaints" issue...that in and of itself without knowing what the complaints were for does us no good to pass judgement.

____

 

[rodney482]

Folks are just starting to talk about the REAL PROBLEM; The public workers unions.

The police union is the entity protecting these bad cops. Its only when good cops and everyone else puts pressure on these unions to stop protecting the bad apples will we see change.

Its the same with the teachers union; protecting teachers that should have been fired years ago. When the good teachers stand up against it- we will see change.

Now we see this Chauvin had multiple complaints- 16,18 something like that. My initial thought was "Bad cop" but my LEO buddies laugh. "Everyone complains" is their commentary....Walk a mile in their shoes. Everyone they pull over wants their badge number. From the rich boy pulled over for speeding...to the wife that was practically beat to death by her husband...then changes her ind and now hates the cops that saved her life.....everyone complains about the cops.

So it seems, I rushed to judgement on the "Complaints" issue...that in and of itself without knowing what the complaints were for does us no good to pass judgement.

____

That might be the most racist response I've read yet.

Who are "these people" ?

smh

Sask is right on his stats..... keep your head in the sand.

 

[Mosby]

Unions should be abolished across the board. They serve no purpose. While we are getting rid of things lobbying should be illegal.

I am not a huge union guy either but I never allow my self to forget that people in my family went down in the mines and worked in the steel mills. The conditions before unions were horrific and deadly. Unions played a huge role in not only giving them a livable wage but got the conditions improved so they could at least get home from their shift. Unions are like everything else today. Some are good, some serve no purpose except political and some are still controlled by bad people. Some jobs require union protection.

I agree with you on lobbyists.

 

[Newtosavage]

Sask is right on his stats..... keep your head in the sand.

How many years did you wear the badge? Hmm?

 

[Okhotnik]

Cops referring to themselves as “operators”....


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These "operators" , and Ive worked with many over the years, couldn't put together a cookie theft investigation. I really think they're a cancer in many departments, local, state and federal and many PD heads are former "operators". So the mentality spreads downward in the departments. I was on a SWAT team in the early 90's and it was low key. I fact SWAT was rarely activated. I would just usually arrest the bad guy myself in a low stress situation or grab a buddy. to help. I used Wait til the guy went to the store for cigs , gassed up his car and arrest him instead of hitting his house at 6 in the morning with 15 SWAT guys with his entire family there. sleeping.

Of course I had a few tussles but tried to be very low key and reasonable. Treat everyone like a human being and de escalate the situation. Now its shouting, and yelling, lots of chest pounding, flash bangs, killing dogs, f bombs yelled at families during search warrants, handcuffing children and old ladies. The "operators" usually figged up the crime scene, pissed off any potential witnesses, and you would have to spend an extra hour before you cleared to calm everyone down and not completely alienate the community. If I drove by a guy's house I arrested later I would stop by and see how's the family, kids were doing. These were in some of the worst inner cities in the US during the crack wars. They were of course some tension and animosity but not to the level of distrust and hate now.

Hopefully this is a wake up call.

 

[realunlucky]

Unions should be abolished across the board. They serve no purpose. While we are getting rid of things lobbying should be illegal.

Good luck getting public workers a living wage without one.

Hell they don't want to pay policemen now.

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[jmez]

Folks are just starting to talk about the REAL PROBLEM; The public workers unions.

The police union is the entity protecting these bad cops. Its only when good cops and everyone else puts pressure on these unions to stop protecting the bad apples will we see change.

Its the same with the teachers union; protecting teachers that should have been fired years ago. When the good teachers stand up against it- we will see change.

Now we see this Chauvin had multiple complaints- 16,18 something like that. My initial thought was "Bad cop" but my LEO buddies laugh. "Everyone complains" is their commentary....Walk a mile in their shoes. Everyone they pull over wants their badge number. From the rich boy pulled over for speeding...to the wife that was practically beat to death by her husband...then changes her ind and now hates the cops that saved her life.....everyone complains about the cops.

So it seems, I rushed to judgement on the "Complaints" issue...that in and of itself without knowing what the complaints were for does us no good to pass judgement.

____

Brother been LEO 18 years. I asked him the same thing. His response was quite different.

He said guys obviously a douche and should have been fired years ago. You don't get that many complaints by doing a good job. Said union is the only reason he's still employed and this is what you get.

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[Milestone522]

Not sure what people think the union does for the Police department. It handles negotiations for contracts with the city/county, and provides representation during serious complaints like officer involved shootings. They do not have anything to do with the outcome of the internal affairs complaint investigation, or the discipline decided by the Chief or admin who handle the discipline of officers (firing/ suspension/ etc) .

In California , before unions and lawyers to represent officers it was common for guys to work 19 of their 20 year career then get fired for any Minor offense. It was a way for cities to not pay for their pension or retirements. Then California got the Peace Officers Bill of Rights (POBAR AB301) in the Mid 1970s. Most agencies were in PERS by then with the exception of really big agencies. Retirements were vested as officers paid into them and the last minute firings ended. Additionally Officers had other rights to be represented thru the IA investigation and any civil service procedure. There was no more turn in your badge and your gun because you wrote the Mayor‘s wife a ticket. You can be fired for any policy violation, but in most minor circumstances you get progressive discipline, write up, then suspension, then bigger suspension, then fired. If it is criminal, just fired. But they still have to go thru a civil service and POBOR procedure To do so. (A minor process over a few days)

As for officer complaints. It depends where you work really. For example, San Francisco PD has a rule that if you get 4 or more complaints in a year, regardless of whether they are sustained or not, you get a permanent “Conduct Unbecoming” in your file which after the 1st one results in discipline and affects promotions. So it is not uncommon for a group of people to call the civilian review board and complain on one officer after an incident. (Think loud party call or vehicle side show) Each individual complaint counts, and the SF citizens know it, so they quickly keep officers from doing much of anything other than collecting 150k a year, by avoiding contact with the citizens period. Another example at LAPD if you Have a citizen complaint as an officer, you cannot promote or transfer to another assignment as long as you have an IA complaint. And internal affairs has a year by CA law to complete the investigation, so one bogus complaint to the civilian review board and IA wastes a year of your life And career.

Additionally, some complaints never make it to Internal Affairs, very minor complaints are handled by supervisors and unless it becomes a pattern is not documented. For example, I was working on the Zodiac Cold case for 5 years and starting new DNA testing on evidence a couple years back. A reporter called from the Sacramento Bee and asked about it. Policy says we are not to speak with the media, but I had been speaking with TV shows who had been calling for years trying to film Zodiac stuff for documentaries (Natgeo, Discovery, etc). I did not tell the reporter anything that was not already common knowledge. She wrote an article. It created a big Nationwide media frenzy for a few days. Chief called me to his office and said “stop talking to the media and get back to work”. That was the informal discipline for my policy violation. Not documented. Not sent to IA for the policy violation.

There were two officers in my last department who got complaints almost every month,... For decades. Their offense: being Asian. One Korean, One Chinese. Great guys but people filed complaints on them all the time for “being curt“ “showing no facial expressions” “wearing sunglasses” and my favorite “folding their arms while listening”. So some citizen complaints can be BS, some can be serious and legit, but all filed citizen complaints are documented in your file.

As for the guy at MPD, we would need to know the complaints and their outcomes to know the seriousness, and most agencies kick the liabilities loose as soon as they get flagged for not modifying their behavior after discipline. If he was sustained multiple times for policy violations and not fired, that was not a lawyer saving him with the union, that was someone within the hierarchy of the department and/or city hall.

And like I said before farther back in this now derailed topic, I just retired medically after 26 years in California, so my perspective and insight is from that State. And every State has their own variations on Officers rights and policy.

 

[Sawfish]

Thank you for your service.

 

[Billinsd]

All this over a drug addict, thieving, thug, felon. High on meth AND fentanyl during this incident. I say good riddance.

He probably would have soon died on a overdose. I say good riddance, he's not a Martar, HOWEVER, he had rights and it looks like they were violated. Let the legal process play out, look at improving police relations and reducing the chances of this happening again without destroying the country in the process.