Dall Sheep - Why so Expensive?

[COSA]

Can someone explain why Dall Sheep hunts cost $17K plus, even in the units where it's walk in? I realize sheep guides are probably the most experienced/well paid, insurance, charter costs (~$2K) and show/advertising costs....I'm just not seeing the math still, as most of the tags are OTC in AK. I'm guessing there must be a cap on the amount of outfitters or an expensive permit involved?

 

[ljalberta]

I could be wrong, but it seems like a simple case of supply and demand to me. The demand for sheep hunting is going up a lot faster than the number of outfitter permits is. This allows outfitters to charge more than the previous demand would allow for. In addition to your normal inflation of course.

 

[ckleeves]

I think it’s pretty much just supply and demand. Since non-res are required to have a guide it eliminates the DIY option making it pretty easy to set the prices to whatever the market will handle. Which must be about 17k+ because guys are booked a few years out.

What outfitters get for moose hunts is what blows my mind considering you can pretty easily DIY a moose hunt. But guys pay it so I guess if I was an outfitter there I would charge the “going rate” too.

 

[OFFHNTN]

I could be wrong, but it seems like a simple case of supply and demand to me. The demand for sheep hunting is going up a lot faster than the number of outfitter permits is. This allows outfitters to charge more than the previous demand would allow for. In addition to your normal inflation of course.

Agreed. AND......people will pay that. IF very few hunters booked a sheep hunt, prices would come down.

 

[Nick Muche]

Planes aren't cheap, neither is insurance, permits, fuel, food, gear, guide wages, maintenance and annuals for planes, the list goes on and on. Ask an outfitter/guide about all the BS they have to pay for each year just to stay in business...

 

[COSA]

Thanks for the replies, though the supply & demand theory is perplexing. I would think that there is plenty of folks out there that would jump at starting a dall sheep outfit - likely at a reduced rate to get their reputation established. Is there an outfitter permit cap that limits the supply and demand? Western elk outfitters offer wildeness pack in trips for ~$7K with all the extra expenses (horses/tack/trailers, wrangler, cook, wall tents, etc)?

 

[Mtnboy]

Prices will come back down when the economy tanks again I think. Right now the economy is cranking along and has been for awhile so more people have disposable cash and are more comfortable spending it.

I have a buddy who owns his own outfit in Alaska including his own plane, I've talked to him quite a bit about costs etc. Trust me, they aren't getting rich doing it, if guides are lucky they run on margins similar to most any other business out there.

 

[Steve O]

Prices climbed right thru the last crash. Lots of people want a limited resource. You will find guides moose hunts up there just as expensive...and caribou closing in on the once huge gap.

 

[ckleeves]

Thanks for the replies, though the supply & demand theory is perplexing. I would think that there is plenty of folks out there that would jump at starting a dall sheep outfit - likely at a reduced rate to get their reputation established. Is there an outfitter permit cap that limits the supply and demand? Western elk outfitters offer wildeness pack in trips for ~$7K with all the extra expenses (horses/tack/trailers, wrangler, cook, wall tents, etc)?

I think the volume of what most lower 48 outfitters can run vs sheep hunts makes up a lot of the cost difference. Between 4 rifle seasons and archery and MZ, a Colorado outfitter with 6 clients at a time could potentially run 48 clients through a year @ say 6k a person. Logistically I don’t think that kind of volume would even be close to possible on sheep. Even 1/4 if that is probably tough for most sheep outfits.

 

[TXCO]

I think if you looked at how many days of labor/work a guide or outfitter puts in + costs mentioned above, the true day rate or net income of the hunt is pretty dang small.

The cheapest hunts are through one man shops who are their own outfitter and guide but that doesnt always mean theyre the best, especially if they think they can clear a quick buck with some internet advertising.

No where can a NR hunt a dall or stone sheep DIY and I read last winter the number of dall tags across AK and Canada has been in steady decline.

If you wanna see supply and demand pricing to the extreme, look at Stone sheep or mexican desert sheep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ohio Darin]

Capitalism. Prices are set at what buyers are willing to pay. I just got back from a hunt in NWT and did the math on their 20 sheep tags times guide expenses plus all the other expenses to keep the operation going and it didn't seem to add up. Trust me they are not getting rich and it is quite the on-taking to keep an operation going. Other outfits may cut corners to improve margins or lower selling prices but therein lies the rip off.

 

[BRWNBR]

Just as a reference for guys, a guide outfit General will net less than 40% off a hunt. That would be on the very high end. I asked one outfitter and he figured around 10% profit.
Hunting season is short but the season for a guide is all year. Your never done with the business. So you work all year but only bring in money for a short period of time. Kinda like a farmer. If a guide has a sugar momma working a sweet job he might have cheaper rates. Hobby guides are usually cheaper as well. Larger more involved outfits will be more costly as their might be their sole source of income.
A lot of folks think us guides are killing it. Not the case.

 

[Trial153]

I haven't seen any prices come down for any hunting, even when the economy is in the shitter. The truth of the matter is their costs are either static or rising regardless of demand.
Othe thing that bugs the shit out of me is Canadian outfitters setting prices in what ever currencey happens higher at the time.....bring up the 27% premium your paying in dollars and you will get treated like you hate Christmas.

 

[Steve O]

I haven't seen any prices come down for any hunting, even when the economy is in the shitter. The truth of the matter is their costs are either static or rising regardless of demand.
Not the metion that Canadian outfitters setting prices in what ever currencey happens higher at the time.....bring up the 27% premium your paying in dollars and you will get treated like you hate Christmas.

Yep, in the old days, we got a big US dollar discount from the Canadian outfitters. Last I recall seeing that was the late 90’s.

 

[adventure907]

Planes aren't cheap, neither is insurance, permits, fuel, food, gear, guide wages, maintenance and annuals for planes, the list goes on and on. Ask an outfitter/guide about all the BS they have to pay for each year just to stay in business...

This!!

I would like to start my own outfit, have slowly been in the process of doing so. One of the most agonizing things about doing so is dealing with the government and all of the many places they have their sticky little fingers in the cookie jar. It's insane.

 

[Wapiti1]

I don't buy it. From my limited experience in dall sheep hunting, only 50% of the cost is the hunt. The other 50% is the Guide Annoyance Fee. It kicks in sometime between day 2 and day 5. Day 1, the client is still euphoric from the flight in and is probably still well rested from the snuggly hotel bed he or she snored in last night.

Then it happens. The guide goes from being the source of knowledge and wisdom straight to the great mountain ombudsman (AKA complaint department). We flatland whiners start a downpour of my feet hurt, my pack doesn't fit right, you didn't say it would be this steep, my silly expensive clothes didn't actually make me perform or look anything like Cam Hanes, where is my sheep, and why the hell won't it stop raining???????????

Or you could look at other hunts and see how the cost structures are very similar. A good backcountry elk hunt for 7 days will run $6500-7000 in the lower 48. Add in the higher cost of fuel, food, and most everything else in Alaska, and consider that sheep hunts are 10-12 days hunting plus 2 travel days and you are looking at very similar per day pricing. Every state is money hungry for guide permits, outfitter licenses, taxes, fees, etc.

Sheep hunts take up a lot of time. Even if you kill early, the guide can't just jump to a new client and make some bank. He just gets to rest for a few until the next out of shape sheep dreamer arrives in a flying aluminum tube.

Jeremy

 

[COSA]

Could the "guide annoyance fee" have anything to do with most hunters not being able to afford/justify the cost until they are dam near 60 years old?

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

Could the "guide annoyance fee" have anything to do with most hunters not being able to afford/justify the cost until they are dam near 60 years old?

As much as I hate to see hunting turning further and further into a rich man’s sport, (trust me, I lived in Texas for a few years. Shoot the one on the left costs you $2k, shoot the one on the right costs you $6k), big hunts are still doable on normal wages if you prioritize things and are able to actually get tags.

People don’t bat an eye at a $450/mo car payment, but save that for 3 years and DIY hunt in your home state, you’ve got your sheep hunt. A lot of guys can’t stroke a check for $17k on a whim, but if you save up for awhile it’s doable. I’m still a fan of the cheaper hunts though and I wouldn’t pay $40k for a bighorn hunt unless I was making A LOT of money.

 

[Superkodiak38]

I would have to retire and move there so I didn't need a guide ! lol... does Alaska still give you 5k per person just for living there or is that urban myth ?

 

[COSA]

I guess it comes down to priorities. $21K (after tipping, airfare, taxidermy) put into a mutual fund could mean retiring 1-2 years early, sending your kids to better school, or buying 4-5 good landowner tags in CO. Maybe one day... cause it's something I'd really like to experience.